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V, 1
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE
UNITED STATES
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SPECIAL
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SEVENTY-SIXTH CONGRESS
THIRD SESSION ON
H. Res. 282
TO INVESTIGATE (1) THE EXTENT, CHARACTER, AND OBJECTS OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES, (2) THE DIFFUSION WITHIN THE UNITED STATES OF SUBVERSIVE AND UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA THAT IS INSTI- GATED FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES OR OF A DOMESTIC ORIGIN AND ATTACKS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE FORM OF GOVERN- MENT AS GUARANTEED BY OUR CONSTITUTION, AND (3) ALL OTHER QUESTIONS IN RELATION THERETO THAT WOULD AID CONGRESS IN ANY NECESSARY REMEDIAL LEGISLATION
VOLUME 12
FEBRUARY 7, 8, 10, MARCH 25, 28, 29, APRIL 2, 3, 4, 1940 AT WASHINGTON, D. C.
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Un-American Activities
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE
UNITED STATES
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SPECIAL
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIYES
SEVENTY-SIXTH CONGRESS
THIRD SESSION ON
H. Res. 282
TO INVESTIGATE (1) THE EXTENT, CHARACTER, AND OBJECTS OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES, (2) THE DIFFUSION WITHIN THE UNITED STATES OF SUBVERSIVE AND UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA THAT IS INSTI- GATED FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES OR OF A DOMESTIC ORIGIN AND ATTACKS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE FORM OF GOVERN- MENT AS GUARANTEED BY OUR CONSTITUTION, AND (3) ALL OTHER QUESTIONS IN RELATION THERETO THAT WOULD AID CONGRESS IN ANY NECESSARY REMEDIAL LEGISLATION
VOLUME 12
FEBRUARY 7, 8, 10, MARCH 25, 28, 29, APRIL 2, 3, 4, 1940 AT WASHINGTON, D. C.
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Un-American Activities
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 84931 WASHINGTON : 1940
^75
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UN-AJVIERICAN ACTIVITIES WASHINGTON, D. C.
MARTIN DIES, Texas, Chairman JOHN J. DEMPSEY, New Mexico NOAH M. MASON, Illinois
JOE STARNES, Alabama J. I'AKNELL THOMAS, New Jersey
JERRY VOORHIS, California JOSEPH E. CASEY, Massachusetts
Robert E. Steipling, Secretary
Robert E. Lynch^ Counsel
J. B. Matthews, Director of Research
C 0 N T E N T S
Page
Barker, Robert B : 7671
Blumberg, Dr. Albert E 7486
Blumberg, Mrs. Dorothy Rose 7453
Burlak, Ann \ 7609
Dickstein, Hon. Samuel 7521
Dolsen, .James Hulse 7335
Frankfeld, Phil 7608
Hurley, George F 7664
Johnson, Vincent 7605
Kramer, Hon. Charles 7525
Lawry, Richard H 7476, 7591
Murray, Enunet Leonard 7468
O'Deai Thomas F. P 7555
Pelley, William Dudley 7201, 7223, 7271
Powers, George 7421
Randall, Charles 7671
Rubley, Samuel J 7629
Waring, Dorothy 7538
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
wednesday, february 7, 1940
House of Representatives, Special Committee to Investigate
Un-American Activities,
Washington., D. C.
The committee met at 2:80 p. m., Hon. Joe Starnes (acting chair- man) presiding. Also present were Representatives Dempsey, Mason, Thomas. Voorhis, and Casey, members of the committee.
Air. Starxes. The connnittee will come to order. The committee is called into session this afternoon for the purpose of receiving some testimony from Mr. Pelley concerning the activities of the Silver Shirt Legion, the work of that group, and its membership. I think it is fair to state that the cliairman of the full committee is not jjresent due to his continued illness, and the record should show at this time that the connnittee is having to operate without the benefit of an attorney and its regular investigating staff.
Also, I wish it to be shown as a matter of record that Mr. Robert B. Barker, who was commissioned by the chairman of the committee to conduct an investigation of Mr. Pelley and the Silver Shirt Legion is not present. He, too. has been ill. but I may now announce to the committee that he is out and Ave expect him to be present tomorrow or Friday for a continuation of these hearings.
With the consent of tlie full committee, I suggest that the witness be sworn, that a })reliminary examination be held this afternoon, and then tliat the hearing be adjourned over until tomorrow, in order that the members of the connnittee may be more adequately prepared to help in the presentation of this investigation in this particular case. The connnittee is interested only in ascertaining the truth and the facts concerning Mr. Pelley and his organization. We are not concerned with anvthing else. The committee's work is finished when we have com])leted the examination of Mr. Pelley and his record and notified him that he is no longer needed as to the testimony in connection with this particular case.
Mr. Pellev, we aie meeting in this room and the acoustics are bad and we are some distance from each other and we will speak as loud as we can and you also, we will liave to ask you to speak rather distinctly. Please stand up and be sworn.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM DUDLEY PELLEY, HEAD OF THE SILVER
SHIRT LEGION
Air. Starnes. At the present time you are under subpena, Mr. Pelley ?
Air. Pellet. I am, sir.
7201
7202 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. And for the record we will state that you shall be under the subpena of the committee and under the Jurisdiction of this committee until we have concluded our investigation of you and your organization. Mr. Pellet. Quite right.
Mr. Starnes. Will you give for the record your full name and address. Mr. Pellet. William D. Pelley, Asheville, N. C. Mr. Starnes. Where were you born, Mr. Pelley? Mr. Pellet. Lynn, Mass., March 12, 1890.
Mr. Starnes. Will you state your educational training and back- ground ?
Mr. Pellet. I was educated in the public schools of Gardner, Mass., and Springfield, Mass. I left school in the second year of high school and entered busines.
Mr. Starnes. What business did you enter? Mr. Pellet. The paper manufacturing business, for 3 years. Mr. Starnes. After that what was your business? Mr. Pellet. Writing and publishing.
Mr. Starnes. And, how long have you continued in that capacity ? Mr. Pellet. Approximately for 25 years past, since 1915. Mr. Starnes. By whom have you been employed? Mr. Pellet. Myself.
Mr. Starnes. Y ou have operated yourself as a free agent or as one not in the capacity of owner and manager of the respective publica- tions which you have owned, conducted, or edited ? Mr. Pellet. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Will you name those publications for the record? Mr. Pellet. The Wilmington Times, 1912 to 1915; the St. Johns- bury Evening Calladonian, St. Johnsbury, Vt., and an evening news- paper, 1917 to 1920; the Bed Book, American Magazine, Collier's Weekly, 1920 to 1930. Since 1932 my own publishing house, Libera- tion Magazine, a weekly and patriotic review.
Mr. Starnes. During this time have you contributed to any jour- nals, magazines, or publications not owned or published by you ? Mr. Pellet. On two occasions, fiction stories under a pseudonym. Mr. Starnes. What was that pseudonym? Mr. Pellet. William Godail. Mr. Starnes. What were the publications?
Mr. Pellet. Liberty Magazine and Woman's Home Companion. That material was fiction strictly.
Mr. Starnes. Were you the sole owner of your publication con- ducted in Asheville, N. C, in 1932?
Mr. Pellet. The Liberation Magazine was ongmally projected by Galahad Press, the stock ownership of which I owned one third of, prior to the dissolution of the corporation in 1934. Does that answer your question?
Mr. Starnes. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. May I ask a question at this point? Mr. Starnes. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to know, in connection with the Gala- had Press, Mr. Pelley, did you furnish the original funds to start that with ?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7203
.Mr. Pei.lj:y. No, Mr. Voorhis. The original funds for that were secured by the solicitation on the part of my own friends' efforts around the United States who were interested in my esoteric pub- lications, who contributed approximately and roughly I should say $5,000 for the purchase of preferred stock, which capital was used to finance the publications of the Galahad Press.
Mr. Voorhis. Did those people ever receive any financial return from that or was it just a contribution?
Mr. 1'kllky. Because of their interest in the work I was doing, and it was made in the way of donations.
Mr. ^'^ooRHis. Did thev receive any returns on it?
:Mr. Peli^y. No. May I qualify that? In 1934, I will put it this way, I will say the word "assailed," that they assailed sonie of our economic and "political writings. The situation developed in North Carolina wliere it was necessary to apply for an involuntary bank- ruptcy in order to discharge what I termed a biased receivership. The hrst thing that the receivership did was to close down an extremely profitable publication with a reA'enue approximating $35,000 a year.
Mr. Voorhis. ^V\mt was that publication?
Mr. Pelley. The Liberation. The publication was forced to cease, thereby depriving the stockholders who owned the publication and for whose corporate name the publication was issuecl, of that revenue. That publication ''Liberation"' continued shut down, I believe, for a period of about 17 months. After the litigation was adjusted, I ]"esumed it under my own name or the trade name of Pelley Publications.
Mr. VooRiiis. Is that an incorporation ?
]Mr. Pelley. No. That is my personal trade name for my publish- ing activities, as distinguished from my manufacturing printmg con- cern which is known as the Skyland Press.
]Mr. Voorhis. And which is incorporated ?
Mr. Pelley. And which is incorporated under the laws of North Carolina and my wife and myself have the full control.
Mr. Voorhis. The investigators have furnished information before this committee indicating that during the time we have been talking about vou opened a personal banking account here in Washington, D. C?
Mr. Pelley. Are vou referring to a bank account in the Libertv Bank ?
Mr. Voorhis. I believe so.
Mr, Pelley. I also had a bank account with the Franklin Bank, and I must qualify my statement. The difference between my pub- lisliing activities and a line of esoteric and metaphysical material for the Liberation, which I was issuing at that time under the name of the league. Tliat work could not be carried on by a publishing concern, because it had the supervision of distribution of esoteric and meta- j^liysical material to grou[)s around the nation, who met once a week for tlie study of that material.
I incorporated under the laws of the District of Columbia. My declaration is properly filed, the League for the Liberation, no cap- ital, no profits, no salaries: that and the revenue wliich I was still getting on the royalties from my books, such fiction writing as I was
7204 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
doin^, was approximately the moneys deposited in these local banks.
Mr. VooRHis. And that ran to about what figure?
Mr. Pelley. Mr. Voorliis, I cannot tell you that. I would, if I could.
Mr. VooRHis. $29,000; would it be about that?
Mr. Peleey. It mip;ht be, over a 17-month period.
Mr. VooRHis. Tliose accounts were o])ened at the time the Galahad Press was in operation ?
Mr. Pelley. I believe the Galahad Press, relyinp; on my memory, at that time, while these accounts were operated in Washington; we also maintained in New York an oiRce at 11 West Forty-second Street, and I believe that the bank account — and there was a third bank account, in the Manufacturers' Trust Co., Fifth Avenue and Forty-third Street.
Mr. VooRHis. The Galahad Press went through bankruptcy, did it not?
Mr. Peeley. Yes, indeed. That is right.
j\Ir. VooRHis. And at the same time that was happening you did have these other bank accounts?
Mr. Pelley. That is correct, but I might qualify it. Just a moment, Mr. Voorhis. At that time, too, I was getting revenue from my various secular writings, because I published four novels, and naturally those royalties have accrued from time to time although I do not say that that was exclusively the money that was in these banks re])resentinir the royalties and nothing else.
Mr. VooRHis. Were the creditors of Galahad Press paid off?
Mr. Pelley. The creditors of Galahad Press never got a cent; but, Mr. Voorhis, there were assets in the Galahad Press properties in Asheville, N. C., to pay off those creditors, and I severely criticize the executors of Galahad Press for not having taken care of these stockholders properly. They tarnished a $35,000 publication rather than have it go out' to the Nation with the political writings that were in it.
Mr. Casey. Was that a receivership appointed by the court?
Mr. Pelley. The receiver was first appointed and then the volun- tary petition in bankruptcy was filed later, and the referee in bank- ruptcy— is that the one that takes charge in that event?
Mr. Casey. The trustee?
Mr. Pelley. The trustee.
Mr. Casey. The whole proceeding of dissolution of the Galahad Press was under the supervision of the Federal court?
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir ; that is right.
Mr. Voorhis. Wasn't there shortly after that organized a Founda- tion for (Christian Economics, and didn't that foundation take a mortgage on the property of the Galahad Press?
Mr. Pelley. No, Mr. Voorhis. That is not true. That was a statement made at the time that I refute. Here is what happened: I had started off my esoteric and metaphysical publishing with the Galahad Press. I found that it was necessary to supply material to large numbers of metaphysical students throughout the Nation at these weekly meetings, and therefore I continued this foundation here in Washington to service those students. Later on, a period of 6 or 8 months, it became necessary to educate, enlighten, and train
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIF]S 7205
people in the metnphysieul ])iiiu'iples I was tittenipling to expound. For that {)uriH)se 1 went to North Carolina on a tender of an under- writing- of a school in North Carolina to teach the principles that I was expoundin«r. It became necessary for me, after arrivin*:^ there, t(. enter into a proposition called the Foundation for Christian Economics.
Mr. VooKHis. Where did the money come from for that?
Mr. Pellky. There was almost no money for that exceptino; such tuitions fi-om people who came in to attend the summer school at Asheville.
Mr. VooRiiis. From the reports we have, there was an amount of $81,000?
Mi-. Pixley. You have been sadly misinformed, Mr. Voorhis. There was no such amount as $81,000 involved in that case.
jVIr. Voorhis. You deny that that was the case?
Mr. Pelley. I deny it, decidedly. As a matter of fact, I would say, supplementing my testimony, there was not $10,000 involved. If my memory serves me correctly, there was approximately $6,600 involved in the wake of that summer school in Asheville, and I want to <iualify this too. After I had conducted that summer school for U months, it became impracticable to run a ndnor colletje of that nature around there in North Carolina. Therefore, I altered the nature of that Asheville, N. C, proposition and conducted this in- struction by mail — a correspondence course.
I would like to add — I cannot guess, I have not the figures in front of me — but my tax returns show it, any amount which the tuitions on that Foundation Fellowship, as we call it, that corre- spondence course which we call the Foundation Fellowship — I cannot tell you what that amount was, but we made an income-tax return to the State of North Carolina for the amounts involved in that project.
Mr. Voorhis. And that would have gone through the bank ac- count of the Christian Economics?
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. Were tliese moneys coming in at the same time that these other accounts were running also?
Mr. Pelley. No. sir; I would say 6 or 8 months later.
Mr. Voorhis. But these bank accounts in Washington were run- ning at the same time?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. The Galahad Press at that time was insolvent?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir. It was not insolvent, and I make the state- ment that at no time was the Galahad Press insolvent. I want to clarify that this way for the record. We had found in the report of our 1982 Federal income tax — all right?
Mr. Starnes. Yes; go right ahead. Had you finished your answer?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir; I thought I was saying something I should not have said.
Mr, Starnes. No. Go right ahead.
Mr. Pelley. I found that the 103'2 income taxes had not included the depots of material which I had deposited around the United States — Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles — and I discov-
7206 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
ered that after the income-tax return was made, I think I explained to the income-tax man, all of which made it right. When these were properly entered npon our books the Galahad Press was not insolvent.
Mr. Casey. Did you take any steps in the bankruptcy proceedings to establish that fact, that the Galahad Press was not insolvent?
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Casey, I battled for 7 months down in North Carolina in the attempt to make this thing clear and was not allowed to enter certain testimony in that record.
Mr. Casey. Who forbade you to do that?
Mr. Pelley. It was not a case of anybody forbidding me. It was a case of not being able to get it into the legal record at the time that I was arraigned for this situation in North Carolina.
Mr. Casey. You mean you did not have the material available at that time ?
Mr. Pelley. I had the material available, and I had called in, Mr. Casey, all of the material in these depots I have mentioned all over the United States. I had it in Asheville. I had it stored in my garage in Beaver Lake, and I wanted the jury to go up there and look at it, because if they had looked at it the thing would not have been insolvent and I would not have been involved in the criminal charge.
Mr. Casey. The point I am making is, the judge would not allow you to do that?
Mr. Pelley. No ; I would not say it was the judge. It was what I would better term "a mistake between counsel" as to "w^hether the evidence was relevant.
Mr. Casey. You had counsel ?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Casey. And were represented in these proceedings ?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Casey. And he, your counsel, made an agreement with the other counsel ?
Mr. Pelley. No ; I would not say that.
Mr. Casey. I thought you said it was not a judge before, but that it was an agreement of counsel ?
Mr. Pelley. There is an avenue here that we have got to explore for a moment, if you will indulge me. Mr. Dickstein, Mr. McCor- mick, and Mr. Cramer and other members of the investigating com- mittee came to Asheville in 1934, April of 1934, and made it very difficult, exceedingly difficult, for us to continue our activities. I will put it this way : I had been warned before, so far as the Galahad Press was concerned, to pay the stockholders what they had paid in, and because a situation had arisen where I had only one-third of the stock in the Galahad Press, one-third of the voting common stock in a $10,000 corporation, allowed me in Albany, N. Y. — the other two- thirds was in the hands of two women employees who had left my employ and had gone away — therefore I Avas liable for somebody to pick up that stock and perhaps controlling my corporation. There- fore, I attempted to liquidate that corporation.
Mr. Casey. All of this is beyond my question.
Mr. Pelley. No ; it is not, please.
Mr. Casey. Wait until I finish my questions. All of this is going behind the court record. All of these things were before the United States court.
UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7207
Mr. Pelley. No, sir.
Mr. Casey. Did you appeal that case?
Mr. Pelley. No'; because that was the crux of the situation in Nortli Carolina, and that is the crux of the situation today, and it is this: I wanted to appeal that decision and through a suggestion of counsel, in confei-ence with Judge Warlick, the proposition was made me that if I would pay a fine and accept a 5-year parole sentence and not to ap])eal that case that would be the washing out of that situation in North Carolina.
Mr. Casey. How much of a fine did you pay ?
Mr. Peli.ey. I paid $1,000 and $750 court costs.
Mr. Casey. You were following the advice of counsel in doing that ?
jSIr. Pelt.ey. I may, but may I add this? In the next year, gentlemen, that I had that material which was in question, I sold $7,000 worth of it, which my attorney had bought from the trustees as old waste paper for $11.
Mr. Dempsey. This may be very interesting, Mr. Chairman, but I do not see what it has to do with what we are considering here.
Mr. Starnes. I do not either. Any other questions?
Mr. Casey. The Pelley Publishing Co. — is that a corporation?
Mr. Pelley. No. sir. It is a trade name.
Mr. Casey. And what publication does that issue ?
Mr. Pelley. At the present time that issues Liberation; Little Visits, a monthly biographical magazine; and Realty magazine, a metaphysical publication.
Mr. Thomas. Will you please give the years that your articles ap- peared in Liberty magazine and the Woman's Home Companion?
Mr. Pelley. Tliev were two isolated cases of sales in 1933.
^Ir. Thomas. In i933?
Mr. Pellet. Yes. The material which I had left over at that time, and I told him of these sales.
Mr. Thomas. Will you also tell the committee the details of the four novels which j^ou wrote?
]Mr. Pelley. The Greater Glory, published by Little, Brown & Co. in 1919; Tlie Four Guardsmen, published by the same house in 1921; Drag, published by Little, Brown & Co. in 1924; Golden Rubbish, ])ub]ished by George P. Putnam & Sons in 1931 or 1932.
Mr. Thomas. Are those the only novels or books which yovi have written ?
Mr. Pelley. Oh, decidedly not.
ISIr. Thomas. What are some of the other books which you have published ?
!Mr. Pelley. My other books, which have been published by my own concern, are No More Hunger, an economic book.
!Mr. Thomas. I am refernng now to books written by you.
Mr. Pelley. That is right. Tlie Door to Revolution, an auto- ])iography; Behold Life, a metnphysical volume: Being Alive, a metaphysical volume — that is all I recall right now.
Mr. Starxes. Mr. Pelley, will you state your connection with the Silver Legion?
Mr. Pelley. Mr. Starnes, I founded the Silver Legion in 1933, contiguous with the appearance of the so-called New Deal of the Democratic administration, at Asheville, N. C. ; to propagandize
7208 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
exactly the same principles that Mr. Dies and this committee are engaged in prosecuting right now ; in other words, antagonism to subversive influence in the United States.
Mr, Starnes. Who was associated with vou in the organization of the legion?
Mr. Pelley. You mean the original incorporators?
Mr. Thomas. All right.
Mr. Pellet. The Silver Legion was not incorporated until Feb- ruary of 1934. In the opening year of its existence it was a man to man relationship between those who believed in the principles I w^as expounding and myself. In 1934 we incorporated under the laws of the State of Delaware, a fraternal, n()n})r()fitable, noncapital corporation, myself controlling five votes — and I am speaking from memory now — Harry F. Seiber, of New Wales, Pa., and a man by the name of Lee Collie, who held two and one votes respectively.
Mr. Starnes. Upon what system of business were you organized? What was the type of your organization ^
Mr. Pelley. The type of the oi-g;inization was a patriotic fra- ternity, Mr. Starnes. Its purpose wjis to condemn by a dramatic move and bring to the attention of tlie Ainerican people some of the abuses that were going on behind the scenes that I wanted publicized.
Mr. Starnes, How many gr()U])s do you have, or did you have, throughout the countrj' in 1934?
Mr. Pelley, That is difficult to sa}' by memory, I can only ap- proximate it for you,
Mr, Starnes. Give us the best you can. What we are trying to get for the record is this: How were you organized? Did you have a national organization with a board of directors, and State organi- zations or district organizations; or how were you organized?
Mr, Pelley, At the start, there was a general staff in x^sheville, N, C, composed of myself, Mr. Seiber, and Mr, Collie,
Mr. Starnes, W^hat were your titles — your officers?
Mr, Pelley. I do not think we had titles at that time.
Mr. Starnes. What were the offices which each of you held?
Mr, Pelley, Representing the president, secretary, and treasurer.
Mr. Starnes, You were the president and organizer?
Mr, Pelley, That is right.
Mr, Starnes. Who was your secretaly^ and who w^as your treasurer ?
Mr, Pelley, Mr. Seiber was treasurer, and Mr. Collie was sec- retary. .
Mr. Starnes. That was in the beginning. That was your general staff,
Mr, Pelley, Yes,
Mr, Starnes. Did you have a joint board of directors?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Just you three?
INIr. Pelley. Under the constitution of the organization, that was not necessary. Those three functioned as a joint staff.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have a copy of your original constitution with you?
Mr. Pelley. No ; but I can get it for you.
IX-AMKIUCAX PUOPAOANDA ACTIVITIES 7209
Ml'. Staknks. Will you do that, iiiul insert it in the record as a part of your testimony^
Mr. Pkllky. Yes; I will be deli<ihted.
Mr. Stakxes. Did you iiave State or<ianizations in 1934?
Mr. l*Ki.LEY. Yes; we did.
Mr. Staknks. How many States did you have organizations in?
Mr. I*KLLEY. I would say at least a dozen.
Mr. Staknes. By the way. Seiber, how does Seiber spell his name.
Mr. Pei-ley. I believe it is S-e-i-b-e-r,
Mr. Stahnes. And the other man was who?
]\Ir. Pelley. Mr. Collie; C-o-l-l-i-e.
Mr. Staknes. Can you name the States in which you had State organizations in 19Mi
Mr. I^eeley. California. Organizations? Organizations is a bad name to apply, because that would infer that I had a complete set-up of officers functioning and an organization working. That did not exist. We did have — I am trying to think for a moment, of the title M'e gave those State connnanders. It will come to me perhaps in a minute. I found that it was not w'orking out satisfactorily, for this i-eason : We ran on that basis for about 6 months; then I dis- covered there was a very dangerous element, subversive, that could work in and subvert the whole thing, one man being in control of the entire State. If he went sour, if I may use that Avord, it would jeo))ardize hundreds of fine people that were sincerely interested in promoting thes^c^ i)rinciples from a patriotic standi)oint. So I aban- doned that entirely, and I made the Silver Legion a matter of per- sonal relationship between these various groups in the various States, which are approximately 22.
As I fully explained, ^Ir. Starnes, to your Federal Bureau of Inves- tigation when they went into my affairs in May, in 22 States we had these groups and between them and myself we had what I call liaison officers, who weie ])urely messengers of mine. If I had any special message, instruction, or work which we wanted done, they func- ti(med in that capacity and that was practically all.
Mr. Staknes. You say the Federal Bureau of Investigation com- pletely and thoroughly investigated you and your set-up in May?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Staknes. Of 1939?
Mr. Peeli:y. Of 1939. I entertained three sets of G-men on three sepai-ate days in AsheA'ille, X. C. — INIr. Brown and Mr. Mitchell.
Ml-. Thomas. You did that ])ersonally, you mean?
Mr. Pelley. They came to me and asked for information regard- ing my organization, and I received them hospitably and with the utmost courtesy and I cooperated with them. We spent an entire day, from 7 o'clock in the morning until 6 o'clock in the afternoon at my office in Asheville. They asked me for anything I had to show them, and I showed them everything in connection with my work, with the sole exception of names of membership, which I considered I should keep quiet.
Mr. Thomas. What was the date of that meeting?
Mr. Pelley. I wish I could give it to you accurately, but I cannot. It was sometime in May.
Mr. Thomas. Last May?
Mr. Pelley. Yes. sir.
7210 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. And that was by the Department of Justice?
Mr. PelXiEY. The Department of Justice, and then Mr. Shite came down, and also Mr. Mitchell and Mr. Brown, and spent a day with me, and on a third occasion two other G-men came down there and I showed them everything they wanted to see, and I supposed that was in the hands of my Government when the Dies committee wanted to see me.
Mr. Starnes. Did these people come for an investigation of you and of the affairs of the Silver Shirt Legion ?
Mr, Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And did they inform you that that was the purpose of their coming?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Was any indictment brought against you or any members of the Silver Shirt Legion?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. On the contrary, it seems to me that th© efforts of the F. B. I. more or less approved of w^iat I was doing.
Mr. Starnes. At that time, you had organizations in 22 States?
Mr. Pellet. I had groups in 22 States ; yes, Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Starnes. In 1934 you stated you had organizations in 12 States.
Mr. Pellet. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Is that the year you were investigated by a congres- sional committee, headed by Congressman McCormick of Massa- chusetts ? j
Mr. Pellet. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. I believe you stated that was in the spring of 1934?
Mr. Pellet. April of 1934.
Mr. Starnes. Did they go into your organization and your affairs and the affairs of your organization at that time and examine your books?
Mr. Pellet. They not only examined them, but I am sorry to say that they absolutely cleaned me out of anything I had, with the exception of one portable typewriter. And, Mr. Starnes, the mate- rial taken out of my office by Mr. Dickstein and his assistants turned up in New Master and I can show you if you get the papers the private remarks taken out of my file appear in the New Master publication.
Mr. Starnes. Of course, the committee is not here to answer your questions. The committee is not sitting here now, but you are "here to answer the questions propounded by this committee.
Mr. Pellet, That is true.
Mr. Starnes. I want to get one thing clear for the record. Were these men from the F. B. I. there investigating your income-tax returns or your own affairs?
Mr. Pellet. They told me that they had been instructed from Washington to get a complete picture of the work of the Silver Legion and Pelley Publishers, which was desired at that time by the Attorney General.
Mr. Starnes. How many members did you have, approximately, in 1934? Do you recall?
Mr. Pellet. No ; I cannot give that to you accurately,
Mr. Starnes, Can you give us an approximatiton ?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7211
Mr. Pelley. I would like to put it this way, for tlio record. Over the j^a.st 7 years I believe that I have signed approximately 25,000 credentials authorizing men to call themselves Silver Shirts through- out the country.
Mr. \'ooi{iiis. How many?
Mr. Pelley. Twenty-five thousand; but I have not kept a roster of those men because that was not the way that we handled the membership.
Mr. Stahxes. "Who was vour State commander in California in 10:U. Mr. Pellev ?
Mr. Pelley. In 1934 i
Mr. Starnes. That was the first year after you incorporated.
Mr. Pelley. A gentleman by the name of Waker Bethel.
Mr. Starnes. You had a State organization in California. Name some of the other States, as best you can from your memory.
Mr. Pelley. Massachusetts and New York.
Mr. Starnes. Who was your leader in Massachusetts?
^Ir. Pelley. A young man by the name of Alvin, Watertown, Mass.
Mr. Casey. What is his first name?
Mr. Pelley. It commences with A.
Mr. Casey. A. Alvin?
Mr. Pelley. That is the best I can recall right at the moment.
Mr. Starnes. In New York State, who was your leader?
]Mr. Pelley. May I submit a complete list instead of relying on my memory?
Mr. Starnes. Yes. The committee will understand that you are now testifying from your recollection only, and you may refresh your recollection by the record and correct the record by submitting a complete list which you will identify as a complete list.
]Slr. Pelley. Mr. Starnes, I cannot identify these men as State leaders, and that would not be fair to them or to the organization. Thev were spontaneous groups which sprang up as a result of the publicity I was issuing at that time.
Mr. Starxes. What other States besides California, Massachusetts, and New York did you have organizations in in 1934?
Mr. Pelley. Washington, Oregon, Illinois, I believe Michigan.
Mr. Starnes. All right. That is seven.
Mr. Pelley. Indiana.
Mr. Starnes. All right. That is 8 States out of the 12.
Mr. Pelley. Ohio and Pennsylvania.
Mr. Starnes. Ohio and Pennsylvania?
Mr. Pelley. New Jersey.
Mr. Starnes. New Jersey. That is 11.
Mr. Pelley. Nebraska.
Mr. Starnes. Nebraska?
Mr. Pelley. Right.
Mr. Starnes. Those are the 12 States you recall from memory? You are testifying solely from your memory?
Mr. Pelley.' That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Can you give us the name of some of the outstand- ing leaders or leader in the State of Illinois in the year 1934?
Mr. Pelley. No; I cannot do that. I would like to do so, but I cannot do it. Understand me, I am not refusing to do so, but I
7212 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
will be delij^hted to investigate and furnish you with a corrected list.
Mr, Starnes. You will for the record furnish us with a correct list of the States in which you had organizations in 1934^
Mr. Pelley. I will furnish a list of States in which I had out- standing groups of Silver Shirts. I cannot call them State organi- zations.
Mr. Starnes. We won't quibble over the terminology, but you understand what the committee wishes for this record '{
Mr. Pellet. Correct.
Mr. Thomas. And also the leaders.
Mr. Starnes. And give us some of the leaders.
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you have any groups working with you or did you have any people with sympathy with your organization who contributed to your work?
Mr. Pellet. Not a single instance. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not you had what we term in connnon parlance' "sympathizers," ])eople who were sympathetic to your movement, and who contributed to it at that time?
Mr. Pellet. You mean organizations?
Mr. Starnes, No. I am speaking of individuals. Can you give us an approximation of the number of individuals who might have contributed money or support, either moral or financial, during this period ?
Mr. Pellet. I would say that that list would run from GOO to 1,000
names.
Mr. Starnes. I see. Would you be willing to make an approxi- mation for the committee of the number of sympathizers to your movement, or who were working with your movement ?
Mr. Pellet. People who believed in what I believe in who have expressed that belief and are not members? Is that what you mean ?
Mr. Starnes. That is what I mean.
Mr. Pellet. I would add 75,000 to the 25,000 I have given cre- dentials to.
Mr, Starnes. What dues were paid, initiation dues, by one who became a member of the Silver Shirt Legion?
Mr. Pellet. When I first founded the legion, I suggested that the members pay $10 yearly. Then I made the discovery within a few months that had the aspect of a membership racket, and it is of record in my publications that because of that unsavory desig- nation, I did away with any charge whatsoever for membershij) in the Silver Legion," with the'exception of $1 enrollment fee which it would cost for sending out the material.
Mr. Starnes. What material was furnished a member?
Mr. PiiLLET. Certain booklets describing the aims, purposes, and o-eneral trend of the organization and what was hoped to be ac- complished.
INIr. Starnes. Who was the author of these publications ?
Mr. Pellet. Since 1933 — you mean all the authors?
]\Ir. Starnes. Yes.
]\Ir. Pellet. Mr, Thomas was in one instance.
1 x-a.mi:ki('a.\ i'Uoi'agaxda activities 7213
Afr. Staknts. Yon know wliat I inojin. Who Avere the authors of these hookU'ts whicli you sent out?
Mr. I*Kij.KY. In other words. Mr. Chairinau, what I am driving at — I am not trvin*; to he facetious in nientionino; Mr. Thomas' name — hnt what T liad reference to was, when I referred to Mr. Tliomas, was the impeachment of Mathim Perkins which I considered a masterpiece.
Mr. SiAKNKs. "Were von assiste<l durinj; this period of time with any other <:rouj) or rathei- associated witli any other jjjroup?
Mr. Pki.lky. ]Mr. Chairman. I have never been associated with any other *ri'<>np at any time eitlier liere or abroad.
Mr. Staknf.s. Either yon oi- yonr council were investi<>ated by a conirressional in\esti<iation committee in 1934: at which time you Avere o|)eratina' in 1*2 States.
Mr. Pkllev. Yes. sir.
Mr. Staijnes. You weie oi)ei'atinfr throujrh a membership of spon- taneous oi'onps in '2'2 States h>st year?
Mr. Pkm.ky. Yes. sir.
Mr. Starxks. And were you operating in the same 12 States in Avliich yon operated in 1984?
Ml-. l^KLLKY. Yes. sir.
Mr. Stai{xp:s. The 10 additional States, can you now remember from memory and give us some of those additional 10 States in which you had sj)ontaneons groups in 19H9 when the F. B. I. investigated yon and your organization (
Mr. l^ELLKY. I think so. That woidd be 10 more States?
Mr. Stahxes. Yes. You have informed us that you had organi- zations in California. Oregon. Washington, Illinois, Michigan, In- diana, Ohio. Pennsylvania. New Jersey, and Nebraska, as well as New York and Massachusetts.
Mr. Peeley. All right. I had Florida.
Mr. Stakxes. All right.
Mr. Peij.ey. New Jersey.
Mr. Stakxes. You have already named New Jersey.
Mr. Peeley'. Did I name New Jersey?
Mr. Stakxes. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pelley. I am trying to get a mental picture of the country.
You have not got a map of the United States? That would help me a Avhole lot.
Mr. Stakxes. AVill yon give us those for the record?
Mr. Pelley. I should be delighted.
Mr. Stakxes. And will you also give the names of some of the leaders in some of those States who have been active in carrying on this program {
jVIr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Pelley just made some reference to me, and I was not (|uite clear as to what that reference was. Would yon mind if he stated what that reference was?
Air. Stakxes. Go right ahead.
Mr. Pelley. I say this, that I heartily endorse and approve of your contril)ution to the Congressional Record, "The Impeachment of Madam Perkins," which I attempted to hand f)Ul to about a hundred thousand people in this Nation. That was a booklet which has l)een sent out since you wrote that.
7214 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Thomas. And you also know that your organization received a letter from me condemning you ?
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. In which I accused you of trying to make money ?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. We did not try to make any money out of that.
Mr. Thomas. I may say that I have yet to admire any action of
yours.
Mr. Pellet. I am very sorry, because I think your work is splendid, splendid.
Mr. Starnes. Did a man by the name of Fritz ever hold any posi- tion with the Silver Shirt Legion in the State of Oregon?
Mr. Pellet. Fritz?
Mr. Starnes. Fritz or Fitts?
Mr. Pellet. Not that I know of.
Mr. Starnes. Or anybody whose given name was Fritz, who was a leader out there ?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you ever have a man by the name of McDonald associated with you in the Silver Shirts Legion in Oregon?
Mr. Pellet. Mr. McDonald, as I recall, last year— 1938 or 1939— did some speaking apropos the Silver Legion work in the State, but he held no official position that I had authenticated.
Mr. Starnes. Have you got any idea as to the approximate num- ber of members which you have in the State of Oregon ?
Mr. Pellet. No. I cannot give it to you.
Mr. Starnes. From what State do you have the membership?
Mr. Pellet. I cannot give you that.
Mr. VooRHis. How many do you have in Calif oiTiia?
Mr. Pellet. I would say, Mr. Voorhis, three or four thousand.
Mr. Voorhis. Who is the leader of the Legion in California?
Mr. Pellet. The leader up until recently — there is none right at this moment — has been Mr. Carneal Alexander.
Mr. Voorhis. And he is no longer the leader ?
Mr. Pellet. You see, I have not had what you call State leaders, Mr. Voorhis, not that I am trying to indulge in any subterfuge. Mr. Alexander has been the man that I would designate as my liaison man in California.
Mr. Caset. How many members have you in your Legion in the State of Massachusetts?
Mr, Pellet. Not as many as I wish I had.
Mr. Thomas. How many have you in good old New Jersey?
Mr. Pellet. I wish I could answer you, Mr. Thomas, because you are asking me to take things out of the air, and I have not the record before me in order to find out.
Mr. Starnes. How much money, approximately what, would you say your national annual income was from the national Silver Legion during the time it has been in operation? From that one source alone, from membership dues or contributions which have been made — and I ask you, have individual contributions been made?
Mr. Pellet. They have.
Mr. Starnes. By the members?
Mr. Pellet. Not altogether.
Mr. Starnes. Then there have been others who have contributed?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7215
Ml'. Pellet. Ri<rht.
Mr. Starne8. Can you give us the approximate amount that has been contributed to the organization for its support by the mem- bers and outsiders interested?
Mr. Pelley. No, I cannot. I would be delighted to give you a transcri])t of the report to the Federal Revenue.
Mr. Starnes. Would you incorporate that as a portion of your testimony?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Or. if it is too long or too bulky, would you incor- porate it as an exhibit, as a part of your testimony ?
;Mr. Pellet. Yes.
^Ir. Starnes. Were any proceedings directed against you or the members of your organization as a result of the congressional investi- gation in 1934?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir.
Mr. VooKiiis. Tlie contributions which were made were entirely un- der your control?
Mr. Pfxlet. That is right.
Mr. YooRHis. Completely ?
]Mr. Pellet. That is right. That is in the constitution. In fact, most of these contributions have been more or less a personal gift to me and so stated.
Mr. Casey. You haA'e a constitution of your organization?
iNIr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Caset. And do you set forth therein the purposes of the Silver Shirts?
]Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
]Mr. Caset. AVhat is the purpose as expressed in the constitution of your organization?
Mv. Pellet. I have got a transcript of that, which is a paragraph^ and if you will allow me to read it
Mr. Caset. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. By the way, do you have any public documents avail- able which will state the aims and purposes which you sent out?
]\rr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Can yon supply them and make them a part of your tesimony ?
^Ir. Pellet. Yes. sir.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. VooRHis. You said awhile ago that in 1933 that because of the New Deal, started then, you commenced this, and I would like to read from your book here where it says :
So the remaining months of 1932 were lived. Roosevelt had been elected. Money was growing tighter, still it did not affect us as it affected others. So long as people liad money, ours was tlie sort of material that they most desired to read. The first item in Mrs. Leslie's prophecy had come true about the "nation-wide spiritual movement" . . . the second had materialized that "in two years or thereal>out you'll find yourself sitting with the heads of government lehind the government in Washington" . . . but the third item, that "in three years or thereabout you'll find yourself at the head of a quasi-military order pledged to protect Christian Constitutionalism when it hangs by a thread" was still in th(> future. What could it encompass? Would the implied Great Pyramid date of January 31. 1933, give me indication? We wea-e watching that date. The Pyramid had never failed.
94931— 40— vol. 12 2
7216 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIP^S
It so happened that I was working? late one nisht in my offlt-e at the east enrt of the main college building when Marion Henderson, my secretary, came in with the Asheville evening paper. I saw eight-colunm headlines. Curiously I picked it up. The date was January 30, 1933. And screauung from the page were the significant words —
ADOLF HIT].F:R BEX'OMES GEl'.MAN (HANCEI.iOIi
I looked at the lines. I read them again. I souglit to comprehend them. Something clicked in niy brain! . . .
I laid the paper down. The prophecy heard thai iiij/lil in the .l.Ird l^fnct pat before rjohuj up to Mrs. Leslie' a, irns ir.orkitvj!
"Tomorrow," I announced, "we have the Silvershirls 1"
Anderson scowled. Marion was puzzled. One of them demanded. "What <lo you mean, Silvershirts?"
"Let me alone tonight!" I begged. "Tomorrow you'll know everything!"
Mr. Pelley. Will the committee ])leuse lienr me for a moment? You have read from somethintr that makes reference to a ])rop]iesy by Mrs. Scott. I think tliat we are enterino- into matei'ial which I don't think is particularly pertinent to this committee, but I state later that on a certain date this thino; would mature.
Mr. VooRHis. What thing?
Mr. Pellet. The proo;ram of the Silvei- Legion, and that it would hap})en continuous with the innovation of a man known as Hitler in Germany.
That fully explains it. You are only reading part of it. If you read the whole thing, you will see that. That conveys the wrong impressi()n. If you will read the whole thing, the whole reference, you will get the whole ])icture of what is meant there, and you will find that there is no particular hook-up with Mr. Hitler in any personal way.
Mr. VooRHis. But this is a quotation here which is attributed to you, in which you say that you have been one of Herr Hitler's de- fenders among your own people from the first, and that you think the thing to do is to let the spontaneous American movement be born here on similar principles to those attributed to Hitler, which shall be American in character and personnel?
Mr. Pellet. "Wliat do you have there?
Mr. VooRHis. This is just a thing that I copied from the McCom- mack hearings.
Mr. Pellet. I never appeared before any McCormack liearing at any time.
Mr. VooRHis. This is attributed to you. It is supposed to be in correspondence between yourself and friends of the new Germany.
Mr. Pellet. I don't recall any correspondence of that kind, unless I can see the letter.
^Tr. Gaset. Was Herr Hitler an inspiration to you?
Mr. Pellet. My dear Mr. Casey, I was writing about this whole problem that has since developed into the Silver Legion before Mr. Hitler was heard of.
Mr. Casey. Was that an inspiration to you ?
Mr. Pellet. "Wliat do you mean, "inspiration"? I had made a thorough examination of the Versailles Treaty, and I thought that Mr. Hitler had done an excellent job in Germany for the Germans.
Now, I did discover this: When I started the Silver Legion we had no hook-ups with Mr. Hitler, with Germany, or any other foreign
UN-A.MKiaCAN I'UOl'ACiANDA ACTIVITIES 7217
power. I had an otiVr luadf iiu'. w liitli eaine in over tlie United States mails, to put ir).(H)() (Jernians in the Silvm- Leoion at $10 a head, by Col. Kdwin Kniei-son. acrompanied by an invitation to ])rocee(l to New Yoi-k and debate the racial question with Samuel Untei-myer in (^irne<>ie Hall.
Mr. Casey. Where was Colonel Emerson?
Mr. Vr.u.KX. Colonel Emerson wrote nie that letter from New York City.
Mr. Casey. Did you know anything about him?
Mr. Pei.ley. I knew plenty about him.
Mr. C\\sEY. Who was he ^
Mr. Pem.ey. Eirst, I turned the whole proposal down. Then I went, up to see my friend, Mr. Sharp
Mr. Casey. Who was Colonel Emers(m'^
Mr. Pellky. I am answering; you.
I went up to see my friend, Mr. Sharp, whom I knew personally. He at that time held the office of vice president of the New Jersey Telephone & Tele«>raph Co. 1 asked him who Mr. Emerson was that he should do this thino-.
And I have here a dossier which Mr. Sharp gave me at that time, which I think I can produce to this committee, but I am not sure. The information which I accepted as coming through our State De- partment channels was that he had been a courier of a sort between the Bolsheviks of (jermany in Berlin prior to Mr. Hitler's advent and Moscow and Russian bolshevism. And I didn't care to have jinything to do with that stripe of individual.
Now, if you wish that dossier. I Avill try to get it for you.
But it wouldn't have made any ditierence. I wrote several men at that time, and there was some correspondence — let me augment it with this — there was some corresi)ondence in the early part of 1933 Avith some young (lermans that had an office up in the Whitehall Building in New York City.
When they learned of this material in this dossier from Colonel Emerson they asked me to come u}) there to see them. I went up there at my own expense and met them and told them what I knew, told them that they were getting on dangerous ground, as I con- sidered it: and there the matter began and ended; and I have never had any relations with their organization since.
Mr. Thomas. You read a transcript from your constitution which approximates what you did. Did you determine upon that at the time of making that constitution?
Mr. Pelley. It has been there. I think, ever since 1933.
Mr. Thomas. You haven't changed it any since 1933?
Mr. Pelley. No.
Mr. Tiio.AiAs. You haven't amended it any since then?
Mi-. PiLLEY. No, sir.
Mr. Casey. Is it directed against the Jews?
Mr. Pelley. No, Mr. Casey; it is not. I am too intelligent to do that. I liope. That has been the construction that has been placed on that phrase — subversive activites of the Ignited States, as I see it.
Mr. VcoHiiis. In that connection, in the issue of Liberation for Octobei' 14, 193H. wasn't there a suggestion in there that all the
7218 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Jewish people should be put into one city in each State, and that if necessary sterilization could be resorted to?
Mr. Pellet. If you care to go into the Jewish question, you are going to be here a long time. I wouldn't like to start on that.
Mr. VooKHis. I am asking you whether that appeared in that paper at that time or not.
Mr. Pelley. There is a situation developing in the United States that we cannot ignore, and that is my personal solution for some- thing that we have all got to face before we get through — before many years longer in the United States, I think.
Xow, that is a matter of opinion and recommendation which under the Constitution I consider that I have a right to propagate as much as you have.
Mr. VooRHis. You think that a whole race of people should be treated in that way ?
Mr. Pelley. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. What is particularly wrong with a group living unto themselves and not running into the clash and friction that we are developing in this Nation at a tragic rate ? AVhat is wrong with that ? Dicln't our Pilgrim Fathers do the same thing in New England? They are only keeping by themselves, and this is their own religion in life and their own ideals.
Mr. VooRHis. As you know, and I need not tell this committee, I thoroughly agree that we need a greater unity among our people and d great deal less breaking down of that unity by means of teaching people to hate one another.
Mr. Pelley. I am not teaching people to hate one another.
ISIr. VooRHis. Wouldn't you call a suggestion to sterilize a whole race that ?
Mr. Pelley. In other words, Mr. Voorhis, we are approaching a situation in the United States now where we cannot help noticing a growing anti-Semitism.
I don't hold any hatred toward any Jew in the United States. But our people over this Nation, my dear Mr. Voorhis, are discussing this question ; and it is rising under the surface at a volcanic rate.
Mr. Voorhis. Let me ask you another question. I have here a little pamphlet which is called What Manner of Government Is the Christ to Set Up? I read here something that I believe that you wrote : "A great census is presently to be precipitated in the ranks of this Nation." And then you speak of the "predatory priestcraft." Now, what do you mean by "predatory priestcraft"?
Mr. Pelley. Mr, Voorhis, I have here a book with 82 attestments by leading spokesmen of the Jewish people in the United States that say they are out to subvert our American Government through what I call the predatory priestcraft.
Mr. Voorhis. What do you mean by putting the Protestants in here? Do you have reference to the Catholic faith?
Mr. Pelley. I do not. I would say that 50 percent of my member- ship are prime young Catholics.
Mr. Voorhis. Then you don't have any reference to the Catholic religion in there?
Mr. Pelley. I certainly do not.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7219
]Sfr. VooRHis. Have yon ever attacked it in yonr pnblication?
Mr. Pelley. I have not.
Mr. A^ooRHis. Have yon ever attacked Christian Science?
]Mr. Pellet. I have not. What do you mean by "attacked it"?
]Mr. VooRHis. I believe you are mistaken. I believe that in issues of Liberation they carried attacks on both of those.
Mr. Pellet. Maybe there is a misunderstanding between us. "\Aniat do you mean by an attack? Do you mean that I disapprove of the principles of that particular denomination?
Mr. VooRHLS. xVU rioht. Put it that wav?
Mr. Pellet. My dear ]SIr. Voorhis, if there was any designation which could be put down to my own personal religious beliefs, it would be Christian Science.
INIr. VooRiiis. There never was any material in Liberation at all which is an attack on that church?
Mr. Pellet. Not as an attack on the church and on the funda- mentals of the belief.
Mr. Caset. You say j'ou bear no ill-will toward any Jew in the country?
Mr. Pellet. I do not. Mr. Casey.
Mr. Caset. You would not regard sterilization of the Jews as a display of love and affection, would you?
Mr. Pellet. I don't believe Mr. Voorhis read that correctly. I think if you read that again, you will find that what was reported there was that I said that there are people and groups in this Nation who are discussing it, and therefore I made the recommendation which he read to you gentlemen.
Mr. Caset. But you stand by the recommendation?
Mr. Pellet. Let me get what you mean. Stand by which recom- mendation?
Mr. Caset. You said that you made the recommendation which he read.
Mr. Pellet. No. I said that people in this country — I made the recommendation on the segregation as an alternative.
Mr. Caset. But }tou don't go along with it ?
Mr. Pellet. I do not, and I can bring copies of the publication in which I disapprove of the atrocious idea of sterilization as it has been published in the last 3 months.
Mr. Voorhis. Mr. Pelley, I have here several issues of Liberation each of which contains certain rather violent attacks on the Dies committee. One pamphlet here is devoted vei^ largely to that. I
would like to know
Mr. Starxes. I am going to rule that question improper.
Mr. Voorhis. I haven't even finished the question.
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Chairman, may I say one word?
Mr. Starnes. I would hate very much to believe or to think that
an attack on the members of this committee
Mr. Voorhis. If somebody attacks this committee-
Mr. Starnes. Are you a member of this committee?
Mr. Voorhis. It is not what I am ■
Mr. Starnes. If any people disagree with the work of this com- mittee and do not approve of it, it is quite proper and quite American for them to attack it.
7220 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. VooRHis. I can make it very plain — —
Mr. Thomas. I think he ought to be allowed to finish his question. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. VooKHis. My question was this: Mr. Pelley, as you have a. perfect right to do', you have in this publication very publicly criti- cized the committee ; but you say today that you heartily approve of it. I am wondering what changed your mind.
Mr. Pelley. One of the things is meeting the committee face to face and learning that they are a fine group of Christian gentlemen.
I have had — and I confess it publicly, to go into the record — within the past 6 weeks a total change of heart toward the work of the Dies committee; and I apologize publicly to each one of you gentlemen and to Mr. Dies, who is not present, for anything up to the present time that has not been entirely pleasant or anything that I have said of a critical nature.
Mr. Thomas. I wouldn't come to a conclusion, Mr. Pelley, until we are through.
Mr. Starxes. I think frankly that those questions are improper and should be ruled out.
Mr. Pelley. Don't rule out the a})ology.
Mr. Starnes. I think they are facetious, and that it does not make any difference for the I'ecord whether or not this witness or anybody else likes or dislikes this committee.
Frankly, as one member of the committee, I don't care what his personal opinion about it is or of any other witness that comesbefore the committee. And I havel told every witness that I am not interested in their likes or dislikes. What I am interested in is whether or not this witness has in fact and in truth been connected with any un-American and subversive activities; and I respectfully request the membeis of the committee to address their questions along that line.
Mr, Thomas. I'hat is right.
Mr. VooRiiis. AVas it that changed attitude toward the committee that led you to come in here to testify '(
Mr. Pelley. It was, sir.
Mr. VcoRHis. When they could not find you before?
Mr. Pelley. It was, sii".
Mr. Starnes. Now, prior to the time I was interrupted a moment ago by some questions which some of the other gentlemen of the committee wanted to jjropound to you, I was asking you to give us some approximation of the amount of money which you received annually from your members and from outside sources, to give us an appi-oximation. I believe you said that you would submit your in- come-tax return. But can you give us at this time here some idea of the amount of money that you receive ?
Mr. Pelley. No; I cannot, Mr. Chairman. I Avould if I could, but I cannot.
Mr. Starnes. But you will produce your records for the committee?
Mr. Pelley. I will. I will be delighted.
Mr. Starnes. Are you in a position to bring them to us tomorrow, at a session that is to be held tomorrow?
Mr. Pelley. It is pretty short notice. I could do it in 48 hours.
I
UN-A.MKKICAN I'KorAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7221
Mr. Starnes. All rioht.
Mr. Pki.i.ky. Let iiu' (lualify that, Mr. Sturnes. The reason for that is this:
Due to the unfortunate reeoniniendations that were made in rej^ard to nie by Mr. Barkley and the Income Tax Bureau, the Bureau of Fe(UM:irKeveiuie has possession of all my books at the present time. 1 have had a day of very friendly conference with them. They have found my income tax, as they understand it, approximately correct as turned in to the Federal Government.
The books beino- in their hands, 1 have got to check and find out or <rt't it from people who are more conversant witli it than I am. I could call over the telephone tonight and find out from my Ashe- ville office and have a ie})ort over the telephone from someone at Ashe- ville heie overnight. But 1 have nothing to hide in any way, shape, or niannei- regarding it.
Might I i)ut this in the record, too, Mr. Sltarnes, if it is not irrele\aut : Of the !f200.()()() whicli I am accredited witli having re- ceived over a })eriod of 8 years. I would say that not over 40 percent of that has liad anything to do Avith the Silver Legion or political or economic work or any esoteric publication. It had nothing to do with the Jewish question or my patriotic belief.
^Ir. Masox. Mr. Pelley, vou have now given us an approximation of it, because 40 percent of $200,000 is $80,000; and that over a period of 8 years would be an average of $10,000.
Mr. Pelley. That is right; and I don't think that that is far off, Mr. Mason.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Pellev, do yon honestly believe that the Presi- dent personally appropriated the funds collected in the infantile paralysis drives? I think that that was a very scnrrilons thing to say about anybody.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Voorhis, I cannot see that that line of questions is pertinent. I think yon are going too far afield.
5lr. Voorhis. It seems to me that
Mr. Starnes. There may be a lot of things that all of us as indi- viduals might thing Avere scnrrilons that certainly would not come within the scope of a congressional investigation of what are un- American and subversive activities.
I do hope that you gentlemen will please confine your questions to that, and I shall ask this witness, and insist that he confine his an- swers and make them responsive to the relevant questions concerning- un-American and subversive activities.
It seems to me that we have reached a point where it may be necessary to interrogate this witness at length concerning financial transactions of the Silver League and its affiliates, if it has any affiliates. We have the assurance that we will probably have the assistance of the investigator in that connection in the morning.
In further view of the fact that it will be necessary for him to get in touch with the Bureau of Internal Revenue, either here in Wash- ington or through the Asheville office, to obtain certain data for presentation in order to answer the questions propounded to him, I am going to suggest at this time that we adjourn, to meet tentatively in the morning at 10 : 30.
Mr. Thomas. Before getting to the question of adjournment, Mr. Pelley mentioned that the F. B. I. had made an investigation of his
7222 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
organization as late as May of 1939. We slionld certainly know what the result of that investigation was; and I personally cannot understand why the Department of Justice has not given us the facts as they found them. And I suggest that the clerk of the committee write the Department of Justice and ask for a report.
Mr. Starnes. That is a matter that we will take up in executive session.
Now, Mr. Pelley, you are under subpena from the committee and will return to the committee tomorrow morning at the hour set and at any hour set until you are told not to return. You will return tomorrow morning at 10 : 30.
(Whereupon, at 3:50 p. m., an adjournment was taken until the next day, Thursday, February 8, 1940, at 10: 30 a. m.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMEEICAN PEOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1940
House of Representatives, Special Committee to I^'^•ESTIGATE Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10:30 a. m.
Present: Mr. Starnes (acting chairman), Mr. Dempsey, Mr. Voor- his, Mr. Casey, Mr. Mason, and Mr. Thomas.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM DUDLEY PELLEY— Resumed
Mr. Starnes. The committee will come to order. At the time vre adjourned yesterday the Chair had ruled as improper a question asked by our very able, conscientious, lovable colleague from Cali- fornia, Mr. Voorhis, concerning an alleged statement or publication by the witness to the effect that the President of the United States had converted funds raised by the Infantile Paralysis Campaign in this country to his own personal use, or words to that effect. The Chair ruled the question to be improper.
T-lie Chair did not mean to be arbitrar}^ in its manner or in its ruling; but the committee has been criticized by some of its own members, including the gentleman who propounded the question, for the procedure of the committee in permitting witnesses to use this committee as a background for issuing statements or making declara- tions about Government officials that were derogatory and defamatory in their scope, extent, and character, and probably were not respon- sive to the questions. The Chair felt that the question on its face was a personal matter, and for that reason instructed the witness not to reply thereto, because the Chair felt that if the witness replied thereto, it would give the witness an opportunity to say something of a personal nature against the President of the United States. That was the reason that the Chair ruled as it did.
The Chair further states that he knows nothing of the alleofed statement, and does not believe that any such statement is true if it was made, and would not countenance such a statement being made before the committee. In fact, that was the reason the Chair ruled that the question was not proper and instructed the witness not to reply thereto.
Now, we will resume the examination of the witness.
Mr. Pelley, you have been sworn previously ; so it is not necessary to swear you again.
I wish to ask you some questions concerning the Silver Shirt move- ment.
7223
7224 UN-AMERICAx"^ PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Did you have, a form of application that was used by those who desired to become members of the Legion?
Mr. Pellet. I did, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. I hand you here what purports to be an application blank to be signed by one who desires to become a member of the Silver Shirt Legion.
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Can you identify that as being one of the blanks?
Mr. Pellet. I identify that as one of the very early ones, probably the first one.
Mr. Starnes. We will incorporate that in the record at this point in full.
(The paper referred to is as follows:)
Silver Shibt Enrollment Application
confidential infoemation
(Please use ink and fill out in longhand)
Date , 1933.
General Staff.
Silver i^hirts' of America, A.shcriUc. V. C.
I HEREBY malve application for enrollment as a Silver Shirt of America in the
Post of the city state of and submit the follovping
Confidential Data concerning m.v fitness for admittance :
Full baptized name
Please print
Married name (If a woman)
Please print
Present address
Street City State
CONFIDENTIAL DATA
Place of Birth
Date of Birth Exact Hour and Minute
M.v Racial Extraction
I was cliristened in following Faith
Father's Name
Father's Birthplace
Mother's Maiden Name in Fall
Mother's Birthplace
Maiden Name of Present Wife
Full Baptized Name of Husband (if a woman)
Children sons ; daughters
My Scliooling
M.v Family Physician's Name and Address is
Profession, Trade or Vocation
Lodge Affiliations
My last Employer
Address
Previous Politics
€oIor of Hair Color of E.ves
Weight Height
Physical Disabilities, if any
Military Experience, if any
My average Normal Income from Profession or Trade $
I have banked in following Bank
I own following Real Estate at present
REFERENCES FOR RESPONSIBILITY
Name
Address
IN-AMKUK'AN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7225
Nil me
Address
Xame
Address
I'ruposcd and Endorsed by .
IMPORTANT — Enclose Photograph or Snapshot of Yourself.
I have submitted the above in full realization of the issues that are facing my nation, having .seriously studied the knowledge offered by Liberation and the Silver Legion, and the principles of the Chri.st, Whom I serve in the pi'esent world crisis.
Signed
Mr. St.arnks. I notice that you ask for certain confidential data iiere. Yon ask for tlie racial extraction of the proposed enrollee.
Mr. Pelley. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Was your membership limited to any particular race or racial extraction?
Mr. Pelley. My membership at that time, according to the stipula- tions of the constitution and the by-laws, was strictly a Christian organization. Thereby by elimination it would have the censorship of people Of the Judaistic faith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. AVas there any restriction on the person who desired to become a member so far as his place of birth was concerned ?
Mr. Pelley. He must be either an American native or naturalized.
^Ir. St.arnes. I notice that you want to know here the exact hour and minute and date of birth. Was there any particular reason for a question of that type and character?
5lr. Pelley. Not from the political and economic standpoint. That is more or less of a metaphysical question.
Mr. Starnes. It is a metaphysical question?
Mr. Pelley. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Were you concerned with the question of your mem- laership's politics?
Mr. Pelley. Xot necessarily. I wanted to know their American- ism : not their politics.
Mr. Starnes. I notice that you ask here, "Give previous politics."
Mr. Pelley. There is no special significance to that, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. By the way, did you ever have any type of military organization in connection with the Silver Shirt Legion?
Mr. Pelley. Military in the sense of arms?
^Ir. Starnes. Xo.
Mr. Pelley. Or military in the sense of an identifying uniform?
Mr. Starnes. Both or either.
Mr. Pelley. We had a military, I will use the word, set-uj>, insofar as the regalia was concerned; but no arms have ever been connected with the organization, Mr. Congressman.
Mr. Starnes. But you did have a military set-up in that you had a commander-in-chief, a chief of staff, and State commanders in the original inception of the movement?
]Mr. Pelley. Correct.
Mr. Starnes. Did you give any type of military instruction to the memljership? Did you ever give any type of military instruction or training?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir.
7226 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. I notice on© question that you ask in this enrolhnent blank is "military experience, if any." What was the purpose of
that?
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Chairman, when the Silver Legion was organized we had a totally different condition in the United States than we are enjoying now in 1940. At the beginning of the Silver Legion's work all of the things that the Dies committee has succeeded in uncover- ing as to subversive activities in this country were known to the heads and the founders of the Silver Legion movement.
We saw this menace, which we could get no congressional commit- tee at tliat time to take any cognizance of whatever ; and therefore I ask the indulgence of the connnittee in this respect — that we were looking at a condition where there might be a complete overthrow of orderly constitutional government in the United States; and under our assumed constitutional prerogative we were preparing for that only. Nowhere do I know of any intention or specific statement that we liad any designs on the present form of government of the United
States.
Mr. Starnes. Did you have an organization in Washington, D. C, in the beginning, or at any time since the inception of your move- ment ?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir; I don't recall that we did.
Mr. Starnes. You stated on yesterday that at the present time you had organizations in 22 States, and they were spontaneous in a way.
Mr. Pelley. That is right.
Mr. aS'tarnes. In that they just sprang up in the various States.
Mr. Pelley. People w(ould get hold of the literature and become interested and specify a desire to form a unit.
Mr. Starnes. Did you require an oath of enlistment on the part of your Silver Shirt Legion?
Mr. Pelley. We did at the very beginning. And then it was tak- ing the status of a secret organization, and we had no real design to fallow that type of procedure. We had nothing to conceal particu- larly. Anybody could qualify who subscribed to our fundamental principles.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have a copy of that oath with you ? Or can you make a copy available for the committee ?
Mr. PlELLEY. I should be delighted. But that was abandoned in 1934 or 1935, and has never been used since.
Mr. VooRHis. Could you repeat the oath?
Mr. Pelley. No; I could not.
Mr. VooRHis. You don't remember it?
Mr. Pelley. It is approximately a subscription to the sentiments that I read to you gentlemen yesterday in regard to the material on the charter.
INIr. Starnes. Then at its inception, and certainly during the early period of its organization, if not down to the present time, you had a military concept insofar as the organization was concerned, the actual physical set-up of your organization? Is that correct?
Mr. Pelley. That is correct. Aimed at, as I say, an emphasis on the possibility of a ver^^^ serious communistic inroad into our present form of goverimient.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Mr. Robert C. Summerville?
Mr. Pelley. I do.
IX-A.MEUIC'AX Pli01'AGANL>A ACTIVITIES 7227
jNIr. Starxes. AVlio is IVfi-. KolxM't C. Sumniervillo?
Mv. Pki.lky. He is a youiiir niaii who joined my office force in 1931 in New York City, and remained as manaoing editor of one of my l)iiblications nntil about 1936, since which time he has not been jissociarcnl Avith me.
Mr. Starxes, Since 1936 ?
Mr. Pelu-:y. Right.
Mr. Starxes. He is a Xew Yorker, I understand you to say?
^Ir. Pkllet. He joined my force in Ncav York. I believe he came originally from Chicago.
]NIr. Starxes. Was he a member of your organization in November 1933?
Mr. Pfxley. November 1933? Y'es.
Mr. Starxes. In what capacity was he acting at that time in the national headquarters?
Mr. Pellet. Associate editor of the publication Liberation ; and he also handled a certain amount of the correspondence that came in apropos of the Legion's work, I can't recall if he had any official title or what it was. However, I could refresh my memory on that perhaps at another session.
^Ir. Starx'es. Y^ou would be familiar with his handwriting? You could identifv his handwriting?
Mr. Pellet. I could.
Mr. Starxes. I hand you herewith a letter under date of Novem- ber 1-4, 1933, from Asheville, N. C, W'hich is signed "Cordially yours, National Headquarters, Robert C. Summerville" ; and I ask you to look at that ancl see if you can identify his signature.
Mr. Pellet. That is correct.
Mr. Starxes. All right.
Now, there is an excerpt or a quotation that I want to insert in the record and ask you a question with reference thereto. It is con- tained in this letter. We will insert the entire letter in the record.
(The paper referred to reads as folloAvs:)
The first essential is for you to become a member of the Silver Legion, and to this end I have enclosed a pink slip and Enrollment Application. When these are returned, together with a small photo of yourself, you will be entitled to step into the more private knowledge which incurs the responsibility of serious action on your part. You will then also receive your Certificate of Membership and National Number.
For the past few years we have been engaged in a nationwide research into all the agencies and elements responsible for the present debauchery of our Christian institutions, as well as our national economic situation. Because of the appalling facts which this research has uncovered, particularly the activi- ties of the International group to overthrow our government, we are now active in the promotion of a growing Christian militia which holds every prospect of taking the national situation by the horns and performing a serious setback to the activities of these predatory forces.
We can give .vou no better outline of our entirely constructive program than to send you an is.sue of the liberation Weekly, our national organ, together with the enclosed. All members of the Silver Legion receive the Liberation Weekly, in order to be fully informed of the Silver Shirt activity and progress.
We eagerly await your reaction to this material, and stand ready to give you further details, together with a strong cooperation in your territory. The time is coming when those of us who have a sterling patriotism that can be neither debauched, intimidated, nor subverted, must stand shoulder to shoulder to preserve a nation that was once American.
Awaiting your further pleasure in the matter and trusting you will carry on to becoming a Silver Shirt, I am
7228 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. We will take one excerpt from this letter now.
We are now active in the promotion of a growing Christian militia which holds every prospect of taking the national situation by the horns and perform- ing a serions setback to the activities of these predatory forces.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. What explanation have you to make concerning a statement of this type and character?
Mr. Pelley. The predatory forces are the exact interests, sub- versive and otherwise, that I just identified.
But, Mr. Chairman, may I state this very strongly : When I dis- covered— and I am not attempting to whitewash myself on it — when I discovered the inefficiency and misinterpretation that was growing out of ]\Ir. Summerville's letters as to what we were trying to do, that was the reason why we parted company.
Mr. Summerville, with all due respect to the young man — he is only about 25 years of age — I discovered had written many letters around the country of which I did not appi'ove and wliich caused me considerable grief and heartburn. That is not an alibi of any letters that he might have written while he was in my employ. But I cannot subscribe to all of the things which he put in which I did not know were going out.
Mr. Starnes. Can you subscribe to this statement, "We are now- active in the promotion of a growing Christian militia which holds every prospect of taking the national situation by the horns and per- forming a serious setback to the activities of these predatory forces"?
Mr. Pelley. The predatory forces that Robert was talking about there was the event of a communistic revolution.
Now, that particular word "militia" sounds very menacing, but it is a common militaiy term describing a group of men that come together aggressively to uphold any princijDle.
Mr. Starnes. What did you mean in usnig the term "Christian militia"? Does not that appear in some of your later publications and later statements?
Mr. Pelley. I would define that as a group of young men who were patriotically inclined to defend their country, who were Christian by religious faith strictly.
Mr. Starnes. How do you define "militia"?
Mr. Pelley. I define "militia" as a group of young men who may eventually have to bear arms in a military manner, not necessarily doing it in such a situation as we are discussing now.
In other words — and I am not trying to alibi the nature of the concern at its inception — I am saying that an organization like tlui Silver Legion, with a 7-year growth, sliould be judged, in my humble opinion, by what it has done, not by what one lone young man may write in correspondence with a distant city.
We have not aggressively attempted any activity of a type which might be called a military menace to the United States in the militia form or any other form; and I submit the record of the concern over 7 years. We have had no military drilling. We have had n.o giuis or ammunition that I am aware of.
Mr. Starnes. You can see, Mr. Pelley, the clear im))lication of his actual declaration here that the organization, I mean, that the vSilver Shirt Legion was interested in setting up a form of militia.
UN-AMKUICAN I'KUl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 7229
Mr. Pellet. I can, Mr. Chairniaii ; and I disapprove of it ; and Mr. Suniniorvillo is no lonixcM- in my em])loy, and I would not countonan.co propa<randa >i"oin^- out tliat we were interested in overthrowing; or jeopardizing; — nienacinji; is the word
Mr. Thom.vs. Mr. Pelley is niakino- statements, and I think he should he confined to answerin<x tlie (juestion; not to <;o on and make statements.
Mr. Pelley. I am tryin*; very hard to answer.
^Ir. Starnes. Make your reply as respcmsive as yon can.
^Ij-. Pellet. I will do so.
Mr. Staknes. You kept this young man, however, in your employ for a period of 3 years'^
yir. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And almost 3 years after that letter was written, since it was written in November 1938 ?
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Chairman, does that require an answer?
Mr. Starxes. That is your answer, that you did do it.
Mr. Pellet. I did do it; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Xow. when you sent out instructions to your mem- bership throuizhout the country, Mr. Pelley, you sent them out in the form of official dispatches — is that correct — from the national head- quarters?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
INIr. Starxes. I have here what purports to be Official Dispatch Xo. 1 from the Silver Legion Headquarters in Asheville, X. C. Will 3'ou examine that and see if that is authentic, that you sent this out to the membership of the legion throughout the country ?
Mr. Pellet. You merely want me to identify this as one of our documents?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That is quite lengthy, and we will introduce that as an exhibit to tlie witness' testimony.
(The document referred to, entitled "Official Dispatch No. 1," is attached as an exhibit hereto.)
Silver Legion Headquarters.
Aahcville, N. C. Ofiicial Dispatch No. 1:
It is essential for yon to know what we are fighting for, what wo propose to accomplish, and sonit'thing of liow we propose to accomplish it. The hroad- suli's of cxi)ose material which we have fired throughout this nation have forced the public malefactors to take uote of us and rumblings are coming to our attention of aggressive activit.v taken against us which may show upon the surface at any time. Having discovered to their own amazement how easy it Is, under the hysteria of a national emergency, to set aside our Constitutional riglits in the matter of owning gold on which oiir whole currency system has been founded .since the days of Alexander Hamilton, and to set up the instru- mentality for a Soviet Dictatorship right here in America in the guise of the N-It-A, it may not be much longer before they arrogantly abrogate our Consti- tutional rights of a free press and free speech and say that no institution or no individual shall have the i)rivilege of uttering any criticism against them, or discuss publicly what they are doing to make their alien autocracy complete.
If, as, and when this happens, it must be a point of honor with you to take it as a signal for a galvanism of activity in your particular locality. You must then carry on promotion of the work by word of mouth, considering yourself a little distributing point of inforuKition and peaceful agitation, rnfortunately, so low has the public morale sunken in tliis country, that thus must we free-
7230 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
men fight individnally for our Constitutional riglits against a group of aliens, thousands of whom have no right in this country at all, under our immigration laws, but who have so seciirely entrenched themselves in official positions that any public remonstrance against them is ignored, suppressed, or subverted for their own purposes.
As you have been advised. The Silver Legion of America is a Christian Militia, only soliciting for its fighting ranks those men and women of Christian faith and American citizenship whose paramount ideal is not only to restore inviolate our republican form of institutions politically — understand, I do not mean the Republican party — but see that they are administered strictly by people of their own faith and ideals. That is our first tenet.
We declare to the nation that we stand for the absolute and impeccable integrity of the United States of America and its representative form of government envisioned and projected by the Continental Fathers, and for the Constitution of the United States in its moral and economic essence. There can be, and will be, no deviation from this affirmation at any time, and may our detractors so note. We are the unalterable foes of the Russian-Jeioish form of Communistic government, against which Adolph Hitler is mailing such a gritty and successful stand at the present time. We waste no symimthy for those who are complaining of being "persecuted" for we have secret knowl- edge that they are whining at treatment which they meted out to the German Fatherland without let or hindrance since long before the war, until they had brought Germany almost down to ruin. The same elements are doing the same thing here in America under cover, only with this difference from Germany, that our people have yet to find it out and recognize its grim reality as the chief motivating factor behind a continuance of the Depression.
The Silver Legion proposes to obtain their objectives, primarily by political means, peacefully, lawfully, and without violence. Nevertheless they do not constitute a strictly political organization. They enlist under the Libera- tion Banner the great moral force that is Christianity in its essence, to see that the principles of The Christ are carried out equitably and prac- tically in every avenue of everyday life. They will not stand for the country being dominated and conducted by an alien people whose ideas and ethics are not our ideas and ethics, and who openly sneer at our Christ of the Immaculate Conception as "Christ the Bastard." This is our country, founded by our forefathers, who gave their blood and lives to hand us a political and cultural heritage that is our obligation to keep unsullied. We propose to keep it unsullied. But how?
The biggest obstruction which we have to clean, orderly, and wholesome Representative Government, which we confront in America today, is the pi'es- ence in the social body of a voracious and unrestrained Money-Power, chiefly directed by outstanding leaders of this predatory and non-social people among us, whom we know, by translation of their own documents in their own press, are set on bending all social, political, and economic institutions to the world enhancement of their own people, declaring "that they will yet have us serfs on our own land within a generation."
We have no quarrel with any individual member of this element. No racial prejudices enter into our program. But we view with clear eyes the effective permeating of agents of this element into our free government, our political offices, our fiscal and currency system, our patriotic organizations, and even into our religious denominations, despoiling and subverting deliberately and maliciously, their avowed intention being to emasculate any opposition that tends to effectively circumscribe them in their megalomaniacal objectives.
Temporary success seems to have crowned their subtle maneuverings, but no good purpose is served by detailing specific depredations. We have no desire to unnecessarily inflame the public passions or start reprisals of violence. We do recognize, however, that specific leaders and agents have obtained an unhallowed control over certain public offices of colossal influence in our government, either by appointment or election in their own persons, or by various forms of duress over representatives of other faiths and bloods, such duress not always recognized for that which it is. Enticements to poli- tical advantage, money loans of a quite harmless nature which later prove embarrassing to pay back, the support of influential journals in their behalf through money loans or advertising patronage, or invitations to participate in quite legitimate but heavily profitable undertakings, have placed hundreds of our finest public men in positions wiiere they find themselves morally obligated to accede to requests, pi-opositions, or demands, tending to fasten
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7231
the tontades of this alien Money Octopus with ever increasing tenacity ami rapacity on our institutions of social control and debauch their essential integrity.
"We Silver Shirts have had a Mentorship, the nature of which need not enter into its practical instructions, that has shown us a way by which this preda- tory power can be smashed and destroyed by one clean-cut thrust into its black heart. The recommendation we have been giving is neither radical nor visionary. It is the Great Foundation Stone on which all American political institutions as conceived by the Continental Fathers are supposed to rest. We make it Plank One of our Militant Platform of public service for a finer public probity. We phrase it in this manner : —
We declare that the democracy as projected in America between the years 1770 and 1789 had as its essence the light of a free people TO GOVERN THEM- SELVES. But we Silver Shirts stand unalterably and irrevocably for a true and eftVctive interpretation of tliat inalienable right, of which our Constitution says so much. We maintain that at the present time it exists as a nominal right only, and because it is only a nominal right and not actually in effect, R-e have the spectacle and indignity of a voracious and uncontrolled Money- Bund able to exercise an unhallowed influence over the people's representa- tives.
We would not make any radical change in our political institutions. We would not abolish a single ofllce in the government of the American people as set up by the Continental Fathers. But we say, wath a thunderous voice and a flashing eye, that the functionaries in all those offices shall not only derive their power froni the elective vote of the i)eople but shall, at all times, be subject to the elective approval of the people.
We approve of no NOMINAL democracy which declares that the populace sliall merely have the dubious privilege of naming and dethroning as many little legislative autocracies as there may be legislators in the 48 American States.
We say that the hour by hour legislative enactments of such legislators shall in nowise become law In any instance until those whom those legislators affect to represent shall have put their majority stamp of approval on that which has been enacted as law for them to obey and respect.
Such a measure means that the form of government instigated by the Con- tinental Fathers then becomes a living reality, and not a farcical election in every campaign of a great kingly biu-eaucracy secure against any reprisals for that which they do, until the succeeding election.
We maintain that a system should be instigated at once in administrative affairs imiversally, that is now in effect partially in the State of Vermont. It is the law that at the close of each legislative session in Vermont, there shall be sent to the public printer a complete transcript of all legislation which has passed both houses of that State during the session. The entire circiUa- tion figures of all the daily and weekly newspapers in Vermont is then com- piled, and when such compendium of new legislation is completed in the printed booklet form, one copy is dispatched to every subscriber or reader of a news- paper in the State.
Tliis is done in Vermont, despite the expense, to make certain that the people are acquainted with all the decrees and enactments which have become new laws in the commonwealth during that ses.sion.
We Silver Shirts maintain that if the small State of Vermont can so effectively compile, print, and distribute to every newspaper reader in the State, a com- plete compendium of its new legislation, that all States in the Union, as well as the Federal Government, can supply each voter at least monthly with a terse, understandable DIGEST of each and every bill that is brought up to be made into law by either State or National assemblies.
We maintain that the digest of such bills .shall have spaces left thereunder for the expression of an aye or nay vote by John Smith, citizen, who is to be called vipon to circumscribe himself by such laws and enactments. He shall read the Compendium and so register his approval or disapproval of such legis- lation. He shall then mail such Compendium under a free government frank to the properly appointed officer in the State or Federal Government, with whom his signature is on file by right of his being a voting citizen. If there is not a 51 i»ercent vote of approval for such legislation from the given quota of voters to whom the legislation is to apply, it shall iiot become law, nor be considered as law, and the citizen is under no obligation to abide by it or pay any atten- tion whatsoever to it.
94931— 40— vol. 12 3
7232 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
We maintain that only by sucli constant direct Referendum to the People, can the people keep a control on their republican institutions, preserve truly representative government, and exercise a wholesome influence over those they elect to originate and debate such legislation.
We maintain that 75 percent of the legislation which is enacted, either by City Councils, State assemblies, or the Federal Congress, from session to session, presents in some form or other the economic interest of private groups, or indi- viduals, who by connivance with fallible representatives or party leaders, legiti- mate or illegitimate, have worked to get such legislation made law, that the whole people may become subservient to their desires or interests in some form or other.
We maintain that more than half the troubles with which the general public is afflicted at the present time, come from unwise, unhallowed, unmoral, or partisan enactments against which the public has no redress until after mischief has been perpetrated on them ; and even then they must wait two to four years to dethrone those who have so distressed them.
If a specific Representative or Senator knew in advance that any bill which he might bring into a governmental assembly was required to receive a majority endorsement from those who elected him, his psychology might become so altered that for the first time in American history he would think of the i-eac- tion of his bill on the public IN FACT instead of in theory. The public on the other hand, would become the real makers of law. And why not, since they are those who must obey such law?
True it is, that public enemies in the presence of voracious and rapacious members of an alien money-bund are in unquestioned, control of most of the organs and instruments of public opinion that are of any infiuence worth men- tioning, but in hundreds of instances the expense and trouble of thus deliberately creating a supporting public opinion would be so great as to act as a whole- some deterrent on the general trend of autocratic legislation.
For the first time in American history, too, lawmakers would have to come before the public and explain their pet legislative schemes so that the general public can grasp them, not "slip over" scheme after scheme and appropriation after appropriation, by merely treating with a handful of very human and cidpable men.
If the people of a free democracy have not the right to pass on the nature and utility of their own laws, or cannot be trusted to understand and pass JTidgment on their own laws, then their democracy is a farce AND THEY HAVE NO DEMOCRACY. They are living under a bureaucratic oligarchy, and the sooner we face the fact, the better.
A freeman who has not the riglit and privilege of saying which laws he shall live under and obey, by a majority vote of himself and his fellows, is a political serf. Electing those who originate and debate legislation is not enough. If a citizen is qualified to vote for a man to make laws for him, or to propose laws under the Direct Referendum, he is quite capable of approving or disapproving of the laws which that representative creates, and whose fiats he must conform to, in his private affairs.
If it is argued that such a practice would hinder and deter the quick passage of legislation, we answer thunderously that we have to live under such laws for long periods of time. A little delay enforced in the making of laws will result in few laws and better laws, and laws which will be better obeyed because citizens in the majority have approved of them. It will furthermore begin to awaken the citizen to the fact that he actually has a voice in his government, not the mere "privilege" of going to the polls every two or four years and designating which of two rascals shall frequently connive with the lobbyists of the Money-Bund to lord it over him or subject him to various forms of confisca- tion or s])oilation.
We, Silver Shirts, have t)ther remedies that ARE remedies for the prevailing public distemper. We have been given a complete agenda of the new Democracy truly based on the Principles of Christ, which is available for every citizen who desires to know what form of metanK>r])hosed institutions are going to rear themselves on the debris of all this present venery and economic distress. This short despatch is not the place to discuss them. We present to you herewith a new policy in democracy that is the very antithesis of anything socialistic or communistic, and that will be devastating in its control of the present unre- strained Money Powers.
We are organizing by State Encampments, 4S of them, with Posts in every community where a majority of the Christian people are sickened of all this uii-
UN-AxMEKlCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7233
hallowed and extended rape of our hujhest ideals and the debauchery of our excellent democratic form of represoiitalive government. These I'osls admit men and women on equal footinj;. At iNational lk'ad(iuarters there is a General Staff comprising live ollicers : The Chief, The Chamberiain, The Quartermaster, the Slieriff, and the Censor. Over each State there is a Commander, an Ad- jutant, a Purser, a Baililf, and a Solicitor. Over each Post there is a Chaplain, a Scribe, an Almoner, a Marshal, and an Advocate. The men members of tliese Po-sts are unifornu-d in shirts of a beautiful Silver-Gray with a large brilliant •"L"' worked in red silk on the left breast. The uniformed trousers are corduroy knickers of blue with puttees or long socks. On the blue fore-in-hand tie is woven or pinned the Silver-Shirt's national number. Tliere are no two similar numbers in the entire nation.
These ai'e but cursory details of sometliiug wliich lias been worked out in the most minute form, with one of the most beautiful Consecration Services that is conducted by any Christian organization in America. This great Christ kin Militia, nation-aide in its ramifications, means to suddenly become an active, dynamic, viyilante organisutiun that sliall not only take definite measures against the present lawless and predatory elements ramiDaut through- out (uir debauched and distressed country today, but put in political othce men from its own ranks, pledged to its own principles, who shall carry out a startling iimovation in the furtherance of our American Democracy.
There is an entirely sound and feasible plan afoot for the Incorporation of THK United States of America into a Collossus Corporation in which the present government officers shall be the officials but where every citizen shall become thereafter both a Common and a Preferred Stockholder, entitled to botli the privileges and dividends of corjioration stockholders, and putting pro- duction t)n tlie basis of consumption througliout the whole nation, and distribut- ing its increment as a vast business concern according to its citizens' holding.^ of its securities.
That plan is too big and dynamic to describe liere. But the Silver Shirts are not theorists. They have an entirely new principle in republican government that will lift the United States out of this stalemate within twenty-four hours from going into effect. 3Iuch of what they advocate and are working for, will write new American history. But the public has been clamoring for relief and leadership.
In the Silver Shirts the country has got leadership — leadership that knows what the depredations of the predatory element are, how to fight and end them, how to coop and restrain them permanently from any repetition of such diablerie as they have inflicted on this nation up to the present.
It costs only $10 to become a Silver Shirt. If you are one of those whom national conditions have stripped down to your last penny and you still want to fight for the principles activating the Silver Legion, write to National Head- quarters for a Plan whereby the very real cost of furnishing literature to you may be covered. Further details are contained in The Silver Shirt manual, which, however, is not sent to mere curiosity seekers. Prospective Posts are designated as Rallies imtil they have been consecrated by the Consecration Services. Then both staff and members are informed definitely just what work needs to be done, how to set about doing it, and how to begin setting up a slate f>f political officers in all the 48 States for a new order of things here in America.
This is OUR country, founded in certain inalienable rights, and consecrated to the p(>rpetuation of definite Christian ideals and customs of living. We pro- ix>se without further ado. without equivocation, without any silly sentimen- tality sometimes known as Tolerance, to emasculate the debauchers within the social body :'ih1 reestablish America on a basis whore this spoliation can never again be repeated.
It can be done, and we know how to do it. Proof that we know what we ar(> talking about lies in the fact that the public spoliators consider it neces- sary to utter death threats against the Chief of The Silver Shirts if he per- sists in his activities. Headquarters is already being subjected to threats, intimidations, and other forms of duress. This would not be happening unless we were doing a work, or had "gotten hold of something" which other org.miz.-itions in America have not.
This is not "anotlier organization." We hold no bancpiets. We waste small time in speech making. A multitude of people throughout America are re- ceiving and absorbing information on the Public Spoilers weekly through Silver Shirt agencies. The number is growing wherever there is distress but
7234 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
no leadership, only promises, delay, procrastination, and makesliift expedient that get nowhere.
The Silver Legion comes to Christian citizens who want ACTION and says: "Wie will give it to you, pressed down and overflowing. We leaders are risking our lives to write a new page in American history. We do not propose to see America made the rag-bag and wastebasket for an element that Hitler is con- trolling in Germany, to have it transfer its predatory tactics wholesale over here into the United States, run our institutions high, wide, and handsome, and dictate to us what we as Anglo-Saxon freemen and native sons shall do, with an economic club over us if we refuse."
If you are 18 years of age, of reasonably sound health, and not afraid to risk vour life and limb for your country, you are asked to take the Oath of Consecration upon you, and step out as a TRUE CHRISTIAN SOLDIER, garbed in a shirt of Silver, with the great scarlet "L" emblazoned on your Banner and over your heart, standing for Love, Loyalty, and Liberation.
If you are a weakling, or given to compromise, sentimenetality, docile acqui- escence, to intimidation, and nonentity in general, you are not wanted in this organization, v.^hich knows where it is going, and exactly what it proposes to accomplish. No Money-Bund currency is supporting this fight iiiff Christian Militia. Its funds come from its members only. IMost of them are assuring themselves of every scrap of information about Silver Shirt activities by sending in $10 to the Silver Shirt War Chest, which enables them to use the Enrollment Application and if approved to enter into Post activity.
We are marching with the times ! Our Battle Hymn is "Onward, Christian Soldiers." Ake You With UsV Will You Aid in Helping to Actualize the Tkue Democracy of Jesus the Christ, Right Here in These Toetureu United States ?
Mr. Starnes. I notice in this first dispatch the following:
As you have been advised, the Silver Legion of America is a Christian militia. That is a correct statement of what the organization was at that
time?
Mr. Pelley. That is the form of terminology that we employed at
that time. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. I again qnote from this Official Dispatch No. 1 :
We are the unalterable foes of the Russian- Jewish form of communistic government, against which Adolph Hitler is making such a gritty and success- ful stand at the present time.
That was an official expression on the part of the organization at that time ? This is yonr Official Dispatch No. 1 ? Mr. Pelley. I would assume so. Yes. Mr. Starnes. I note here and I quote:
We waste no sympathy for those who are complaining of being persecuted, for we have secret knowledge that they are whining at treatment which they meted out to the German Fatherland without lot or hindrance since long before the war, until they had brought Germany almost down to ruin.
Just what significance did "German Fatherland" have to you ?
Mr. Pelley. No significance whatever, Mr. Chairman. Merely an identification. At least, no significance as it applied to our principles, of the organization or personally.
Mr. Starnes. Did it have any significance, any connection at that time between your organization and the National Socialist Party?
Mr. Pelley. It did not, sir, and never has had since.
Mr. Starnes. I quote from this same Official Dispatch No. 1 :
We are organizing by state encampments. Then I quote further :
These posts admit men and women on equal footing. At National Head- quarters there is a general staff comprising five officers: The Chief, The
UX-AMEraCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7235
riianiborlain. The Quartermaster. The SlieritT. and The Censor. Over each state there is a Commander, an Adjntant, a Purser, a Bailiff, and a Solicitor. Over each post there is a Chaplain, a Scribe, an Almoner, a Marshal, and an Advocate.
That, of course, is a corroboration of your oral testimony to the etTect tlutt in its inception your organization was organized along military lines, and you used military terminology in desif^nating certain of the officers, and that you also used ndlitary tactics, we will say, or usages in sending out information and instructions to your posts, and membershi]) throughout the country?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir. Qualified by this statement : That all of it was abandoned in 1934. It has not been practiced since.
Mv. Starxes. I am particularly intrigued by this word here "the Censor" in the general staff. Why was it necessary to have a censor? "Wliat were the duties of the censor in your national organization ?
Mr. Pellet. Xo such office ever — I am at a disadvantage, Mr. Chairman, because I have not the full book of the manual here, which I would like to put in your hands.
Have you read the whole thing? I wonder if you have a copy of that, or if it is available — the original manual.
■Sir. Starnes. Will you furnish the committee one?
]SIr. Pellet. I should be delighted. And I should like to go into this same matter in executive session, if possible.
Mr. Starxes. We will give you every opportunity at a later session to make a statement concerning that.
Mr. Pellet. All right.
Mr. Starnes. I quote further from your Official Dispatch No. 1 :
This great Christian militia, nation-wide in its ramifications, means to sud- denly become an active, dynamic, vigilante organization that shall not only take definite measures against the present lawless and predatory elements rampant throughout our debauched and distressed country today, but put in political otiice men from its own ranks, pledged to its own principles, who shall carry out a startling' innovation in the furttierance of our American democracy.
Now, what do you mean, that this organization was to become a suddenly active and dynamic and vigilante organization on a Nation- wide basis? Just what are the implications contained in that state- ment ?
Mr. Pellet. The implications are, in the first place, that the prin- ciples of the Silver Legion, if endorsed by a 51 percent support of the American people, I would consider to be American in essence.
Mr. Starnes. But you did not put that explanatory note in this dispatch, did you, Mr. Pelley?
Mr. Pellet. Perhaps not, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. You merely stated that it was a great Christian militia with Nation-wide ramifications, which means to, in other words, it was its intent, to become a suddenly active, dynamic, and vigilante organization.
Mr. Pellet. Very good. You are questioning now my motive? You are discussing motives?
Mr. Starnes. I want an explanation of this statement.
Mr. Pellet. I am trying to give you an intelligent answer. You are discussing motive, why I did it?
Mr. Starnes. No. I want to know the ramifications of that state- ment. Just what did you mean ? Yes. We will put it that wa}'.
7236 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
What did you mean, that it was going to be an organization of that type?
Mr. Pellet. I meant if we got enough people throughout the United States to subscribe to what we were promulgating, naturally — I don't know if I can answer this — we would not endorse, Mr. Chair- man, people who were for political office whose views were contrary to our own.
That is an inverse way of answering your question ; but I am trying to show that we laid down certain Christian principles of what we would like ; and we attempted to convert people in a fair, open, above- board, American way by our literature and our subscriptions. They could take it or leave it.
Mr. Starnes. Now, I would like you to comment on another quota- tion from this Official Dispatch No. 1. [Reading:]
The Silver Legion comes to Christian citizens who want action
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. "Action" is italicized, "and says: 'We will give it' " — and here you quote in your dispatch —
We will give it to you, pressed down and overflowins- We leaders are risking our lives to write a new page in American history. We do not propose to see America made the rag-bag and wastebasket for an element that Hitler is cou- troling in Germany.
What is your comment on that?
Mr. Pellet. Isn't that exactly what the Dies committee is doing? I don't mean to ask a question. Pardon me. I will retract that. I don't mean that. I don't mean to ask a question of you, Mr. Chair- man.
I mean that at that time that was our rather ebullient method of presenting to a prospective support exactly the same principles that the Dies committee later took up in 1938, when we were attempting to call that to the attention of the American people, and when it had become so great that it was taken cognizance of by Congress.
Mr. Starnes. I will say to you that the Dies committee is not advocating anything. The Dies committee is an investigating body. I shall ask 3'ou to bear that in mind. It is not an advocating group, but an investigating group.
Mr. Pellet. Pardon me.
Mr. Starnes. For the further information of the witness, if he does not already know — the public knows generally — this group could not and would not all advocate the same course of action. So it is very improper on the part of the witness to intimate that this committee is advocating anything or taking up any specific program. We are an investigating body and an investigating body only.
Mr. Pellet. Pardon me, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What was Hitler doing in Germany at that time that you approved of?
Mr. Pellet. He was putting down the communistic element, the subversive elements generally.
Mr. Starnes. Was that all he was doing at that time ?
Mr. Pellet. I assume so.
Mr. Starnes. Was it confined to any particular group or race?
Mr. Pellet. What do you mean — was it confined ?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7237
Mr. Starnes. Was it directed toward any particular class or group or race or any particular group of people of racial extraction?
]\Ir. PixLEY. Yes, sir.
jMr. Starnes. You were advocating that and did advocate that as a course of action, Mr. Pelley, for the United States?
Mr. Peujst. Let nie get you straight. Would you please clarify just what you are asking me? I clon't understand what you are asking.
Mr. Starnes. You purport here to quote with approval the action, in fact you have spoken approvingly in your first official dispatch, of the work of Hitler.
Mr. Pelley. Eight.
IVIr. Starxes. And his manner of controlling Germany.
Mr. Pelley. Right.
Mr. Starxes. Now, my question is. Do you approve or did you at that time approve of the methods used by Hitler; and was it your purpose and the purpose of your organization and its supporters to foster a program similar to that which Mr. Hitler has used, making your program applicable, of course, to the United States?
Mr. Pelley. You mean in his totalitarian, economic, and political set-up, or his attitude toward Jewry?
Mr. Starnes. Both.
Mr. Pelley. I have never advocated a totalitarian government for the United States. I feel exactly as the Nazi Party in Germany felt in regard to Germany, regarding the Jewish element in our population; yes, sir.
I do not necessarily countenance and endorse the methods which Mr. Hitler may have put in vogue, because I have not had any rela- tions with him and don't know them in detail; only by hearsay.
Mr. Thomas. Was not Hitler himself subversive?
Mr. Pelley. We have to define what "subversive" means.
Mr. Starnes. Let me ask the gentleman in the interest of orderly procedure to please address the Chair if he wants to ask a question of the witness.
Mr. Thomas. I was just asking
Mr. Starnes. Do you wish to ask for information ?
Mr. Thomas. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Thomas. As I understood you, Mr, Pelley, a few moments ago you mentioned the fact that Hitler was trying to control the subversive influences in Germany?
Mr. Pelley. That is right.
Mr. Thomas. That was what you said. Now, I will ask you, was not Hitler himself subversive in his own actions ?
Mr. Pelley. You are asking for my opinion in the matter?
Mr. Thomas. Yes.
Mr. Peixey. I cannot see how Mr. Hitler would be subversive when he was put into his office by the lawful, legal president of Germany.
Mr. Thomas. That is all
Mr. VooRHis. May I ask a question?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Pelley, wonld you carry out that same philos- ophy with regard to all countries;^ that is, that any group whicK
7238 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
was by the terms of the constitution and entirely under the con- stitution, which was placed in a position of authority and respon- sibility, that that would be the group that you would look to as the logical and rightful head of that government? Not a political party. I mean in the United States, for example.
Mr. Pellet. I don't understand the first part of your question.
Mr. VooRHis. In answering Mr. Thomas' question you said that you could not see how Hitler could possibly be subversive, because he got his position through the action of the duly elected President of Germany.
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. I want to know whether you would carry through consistently that same attitude toward any political group in any nation which attained to its position of responsibility and office in that government by the constitutional methods of that nation.
Mr. Pellet. I still cannot understand. I am trying to answer the question, Mr. Voorhis. I am trying to get it answered. Is it whether I would advocate for any nation the same thing, the same methods, that Mr. Hitler used in getting into office ? Is that your question ?
Mr. Voorhis. Not what you would defend; no, sir. You testified that he got into office by a legal act of the President. You said that that was a constitutional act on his part.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. It seems to me that there are other governments, notably our own at the present time, which were placed there by constitutional activity on the part of the people.
Mr. Pellet. That is right.
Mr. Voorhis. I wondered whether you had the same attitude to- ward it as you have toward Hitler.
Mr. Pellet. If I understand your question correctly, Mr. Voorhis, my answer is "No."
Mr. Voorhis. You would not?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. And I think I proved that for over 7 years in my activities and in the nature of what I have put out since.
Mr. Dempset. Mr. Pelley, you said you would pursue the same course here with respect to the Jewish people that Hitler pursued in Germany.
Mr. Pellet. Have you finished the question?
Mr. Dempset. That is your testimony. That is what you said.
Mr. Pellet. No. Let us not have a misunderstanding between us. I am not saying that I endorse all the tactics that Mr. Hitler used.
Mr. Dempset. No. But you did say that insofar as his attitude toward the Jewish people is concernecl you approved of it.
Mr. Pellet. In the sense that there must be an ultimate control of some sort of what they are doing.
Mr. Dempset. Why should the Jewish people be specially selected for this control, in your opinion?
Mr. Pellet. May I enter into the books of this committee all of my data to that effect, as to why I believe that?
Mr. Dempset. As a race?
Mr. Pellet. As a race.
Mr. Dempset. I think you can answer that very briefly. Wliy should you select one particular race of people ?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7239
Mr, Pelley. Because I find, Mr. Dempsey, in *ioino; into this whole communistic question that it leads right straight down to — if you will take just the origin of communism — it was started by Mr. Marx, whose real name was Mordecai, and if you will read over the correspondence in speaking of comnnmism, you will find that it all leads
Mr. Dempsey. Isn't it still true that an extremely small percentage of the Jewish people are Communists? That is the testimony before this committee.
]\Ir. 1*ELLEY. What do you call — I am asking for information — • what do you call an extremely small percentage? We have state- ments from some Jewish j^eople that they are 98 percent Com- munists.
Mr. Dempsey. AYe have statements that not 1 percent probably in this country are Communists. We haven't any idea about how many "were in Germany, but we certainly know as to the Communists in this country that peo])le from all races are members.
]\Ir. Pelley. That is true.
i\Ir. Dempsey. It is not confined to the Jewish people. Yet you w^ould pursue the same tactics against the Jews in this country that Hitler did in Germany.
Mr. Pelley. I would not follow all that Mr. Hitler did, and I don't want that to be my testimony.
Mr. Dempsey. You said you would as far as the Jewish people were concerned.
Mr. Pelley. I would attempt to effect a humane control of the influences that are in control of the Jewish policy.
]\Ir. Dempsey. Why do you not control the offenders rather than the innocent ? That is what you are suggesting doing.
Mr. Pelley. I would not
]Mr. Dempsey. You take any race, and because a very small per- cent may be offensive to von. vou would control the entire race, as Hitler did?
Mr. Pelley. I know. But when we get into it, we find that the control is higher up. In the last 7 years I found out that
Mr. Starnes. The gentleman from Massachusetts.
Mr. Casey. Do you think that the Nazi Party in Germany is anti- Semitic?
Mr. Pelley. Yes. I would say they were.
Mr. Casey. You have testified here a few moments ago, have you not, that you feel exactly as the Nazi Party in Germany feels toward the Jewish element ? You can answer that yes or no.
Mr. Pelley, Yes; I do. But may I qualify that ?
Mr. Casey. Not at this moment. Are you anti-Semitic?
Mr. Peli_£y. I would call myself very much so, Mr. Casey,
Mr. Casey. You said yesterday in answer to a question that I propounded to you, you said that you were not.
^Ir. Pelley. I said that I have no animus against the individual Jew. I have very great animus against the tactics of Jewry as a whole. That would make me anti-Semitic.
Mr. Casey. You do now say freely that you are anti-Semitic?
Mr. Pelley. I do say freely that I am anti-Semitic.
Mr. Starxes. Mr. Pelley, I hand you herewith a booklet purport- ing to be published by the Pelley Publishers, Box 2630, Asheville,
7240 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
N. C, entitled "The Hidden Empire." Examine that booklet and identify it for us.
Mr. Pellet. Yes. I identify that booklet.
Mr. Starnes. You wrote the booklet?
Mr. Pellet. No. I didn't write the booklet.
Mr. Starnes. Was it published under your direction?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. It is only one of the compilations which has grown over a period of time among the writers. That is all that that is.
Mr. Starnes. By the Pelley writers?
Mr. Pellet. No. Not necessarily.
Mr. Starnes. What I want to find out is^
Mr. Pellet. The original authorship?
Mr. Starnes. I want to get the editor of that book. Who was the editor of that book?
Mr. Pellet. This particular book, Mr. Chairman, had a very peculiar genesis.
Mr. Starnes. Can you answer my question?
Mr. Pellet. Can I tell you this briefly ?
Mr. Starnes. Yes. But first can't you tell me who the editor of that book is?
Mr. Pellet. No. I don't know who it is.
Mr. Starnes. It was put out by your concern ?
Mr. Pei^let. It was put out by my concern. It originally — the material in it — the editing of it seems to have been done in, I think it was, Lincoln, Nebr.
Mr. Starnes. In Lincoln, Nebr. ?
Mr. Pellet. Yes. As a result of a very bitter interchurch con- troversy that maintained in Lincoln back in 1933 — in 1934.
To that from time to time was added other data which upon investigation seemed to stack up as being true.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know any of the parties out in Nebraska who might have had some part in the compilation of the material in that book or in the censoring of it ?
Mr. Pellet. No. I think it was two Christian clergymen out there; two Protestant clergymen.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know who they are?
Mr. Pellet. No. I cannot say right offhand, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Thomas. Was one of them Mr. Charles B. Hudson?
Mr. Pellet. Not that I recalL
Mr. Starnes. Did your organization put that book out as one of its textbooks of material
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes, That the members should read
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. And should inform themselves upon?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Did your organization approve in whole or upon the principles that were set forth in this document?
Mr. Pellet. Naturally. Yes.
Mr, Starnes. We will attach this document as an exhibit to the witness' testimony.
UN-AMKiiKAN PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7241
I will ask you about this particular quotation :
SiuUleuly, when we in the United States had recovered from the celebration of tlie Armistice, we discovered that approximately fonr million Jews had infiltrated into the United States during our war-years. No lighting in the front line trenches of any country for thcni.
"Them" is in italics.
Moreover, most of these four million Jews held political and economic ideas similar to those of the syphilitic Jew, Lenin, of Bolshevik Russia.
Now, do you mean to state that your organization was in possession of information, or that you are, that 4,000.000 Jews had infiltrated into the United States during 1917 and 1918 ^
Mr. Pelley. Mr. Chairman, I have here the actual figures com- piled by Jewish organizations themselves, wliich show that they had entered 10 times what you have got there. I submit this as evidence.
Mr. VooRHis. Forty million?
Mr. Starnes. Forty million Jews came in during those 2 years?
Mr. Pelley. AVhat did you say? I beg your pardon.
Mr. Starnes, You said that you had evidence compiled by leaders of the Jews in this country which shows that 10 times that number came in in those 2 years.
]Mr. Pelley. There are the actual figures, Mr. Chairman. Jews in the United States in 1927, 4,228,029. Jewish population in the United States in 1937, 10 years later, 12,046,648. Eight million increase.
Mr. Starnes. But your statement that I was trying to get some light upon. ]Mr. Pelley, was that you understood that 4,000,000 Jews had infiltrated into the United States during our war years, that is, during 1917 and 1918.
Mr. Pelley. That was of record by Jewish testimony itself. I am sorry. I would like to put my hands on it, but I haven't it here.
Mr. Starnes. As I understand it, you have quoted here an author- ity to the effect that there were only 4,000,000 Jews in the entire countrv in 1927.
Mr. Pelley. 4,228,029. ,
Mr. Starnes. Now, may I
Mr. Pelley. Those are the exact figures. Those others are merely approximate figures.
Mr. Starnes. Is the committee to understand that you and the members of your organization have information to the effect that most of the 4,000.000 Jews which you are alleging came in here during the war years have political, that they hold political and economic ideas similar to those of Lenin, in other words, communism?
Mr. Pelley. Unfortunately, that has been my experience in con- tact with them, Mr. Chairman. And their Mr. Justice Brandeis issued a statement almost to that effect.
Mr. Dempsey. Mr. Pelley, what percent of the 4,000,000 did you contact or have any contact with?
^Ir. Pelley. Naturally. Mr, Dempsey. that question answers itself. A man cannot contact them all. But when you travel from one end of the Nation to the other ■
Mr. Dempsey. I haven't any idea. I am asking you.
Mr. Pelley. I am giving you my data
7242 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Dempsey. You based your opinion upon the contact that you had with the Jewish people. Now, how many people of the Jewish faith did you have contact with of the 4,000,000?
Mr. Pellet. I have had contact with them for the last 6 years, and I lived in New York City 10 years before that.
Mr. Dempsey. That doesn't answer my question.
Mr. Pellet. I know it. I cannot answer it.
Mr. Dempsey. I, too, lived in New York City.
What percent of the Jewish people did you come in contact with, do you think, of this 4,000,000?
Mr. Pellet. Wouldn't we say, one out of every three persons that we met during the day?
Mr. Dempset. Did you talk to one out of every three persons that you met with during the day?
Mr. Pellet. No.
Mr. Dempset. Do you mean to say that you would pass a person, if he was a Jewish person, and that that is what gave you that impression ?
Mr. Pellet. No.
Mr. Dempsey. How was it that you obtained your impression?
Mr. Pelley. It is a very difficult question to answer under the circumstances.
Mr. Dempsey. I can imagine so.
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. On Page 28 of this document, entitled "The Hidden Empire," there is a question that I want to ask concerning a certain statement there. But before I do it I want to ask this question :
You stated yesterday that you had no predilection, that is, your organization — and when I say "you" I am not talking about you personally; I am talking about you as the leader of this organiza- tion— you said that vou had no predilection against the members of the Catholic faith.
Mr. Pelley. No, sir. ii
Mr. Starnes. You wage no war against the Catholic church?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. In any form. And you have not confined your membership to what you called members of the Protestant faith?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir. By no means. In fact
Mr. Starnes. I notice here this statement : I quote : "The entire Jesuit Order" — That is a Catholic group, as I understand it?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes (continuing) :
responsible for so much Catholic mischief throughout the world, was founded by a Jew, Ignatius Loyola.
Mr. Pelley. May I answer it?
Mr. Starnes. Yes. Is that true or not true?
Mr. Pelley. That is a statement that was in the original manu- script. You will not find that in the later issues of this same book. It has been deleted as being untrue. W^hen I discovered it in there, I took it out of the book quick, because I don't believe it. I didn't write it, and I don't believe it.
Mr. VooRHLS. What were the later issues, Mr. Pelley? This is 1938.
UN-AM KKICAN rUUl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 7243
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Voorhis, that book has had at least 20 reprmts.
Mr. VooRTiis. That is hiter than 1938, because in the 1938 issue that statement still stands.
Mr. Pelley. AVhere is the date on it ?
]Mr, VooRiiis. The date is in the front.
]SIr. Pelley. AVhat pajie is that on?
Mr. VooRiiis. There is a letter in the front that is dated December 1938. So I assume that it must have been after that. That state- ment is on pa<ie 28. and still stands.
Mr. Pelij^y. The one that I have here says :
What part the .Tews played in the world-wide success of the Society of Jesus or the Jesuits probably can never be determined.
Is that in your booklet ?
]Mr. YooRHis. Xo. But this is the same as the Chairman's. It has the date 1938 in it, and it still has that same statement.
]\Ir. Pelley. When I discovered that in there, and it was called to my attention by a Catholic friend of mine, I made a special study of the life of Ignatius Loj'ola.
;Mr. VooRHis. "When did you do that, Mr. Pelley ?
Mr. Pelley. I think it was about 2 years ago, Mr, Voorhis.
Mr. VooRHis. But this book here elates itself after 1938, it seems to me.
Mr. Pelley. It was about 2 3'ears ago I did it, nevertheless.
]\Ir. VooRHis. And you found that you were in error ?
]Mr. Pelley. I was in error. I didn't write that. But it was in a ])()ok that I was publishing, and I deleted it from the book.
Mr. VooRHis. Did you ever publicly, prior to your statement of a moment ago, repudiate that admitted error?
]Mr. Pelley. I don't know that occasion has ever arisen for public repudiation. I think you can find it in some of my correspondence.
Mr. Voorhis. It was an attack on the founder of a great order, a Catholic priest.
]\Ir. Pelley. Correct. Quite unintentionally, because, as I say, I do not approve of it.
^Ir. VooRHis. Don't you think that that would have called for some public statement. Mr. Pelley?
Mr. Pelley. It might. Yes. The fact that it just didn't happen is unfortunate.
Mr. Starxes. Now, in this same book, in discussing the Kahal in Germany, I find the following statement on page 42. I quote:
Is it any wonder that with such a state of affairs obtaining, Hitler should have been espoused by the pureblooded German people as a leader who would rid them of this Kahal Frankenstein, whose American arm has already become quite as offensive to enlightened persons here in the United States?
Do you mean by that, Mr. Pelley, that your organization approves of the method that Hitler used in Germany in dealing with this Kahal ?
Mr. Pelley. No. I mean — you are asking me about
Mr. Starnes. What do you call this organization ?
Mr. Pelley. We call it the Cahilla— C-a-h-i-1-l-a. It is a Spanish word meaning a council or convention.
Mr. Starnes. You say that you don't.
n
7244 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Now, then, here is your further statement following that :
Hitler preached a doctrine of "Germany for the Germans" and we should preach a doctrine of "America for Americans." Hitler used a steel wedge "to split a hardwood block" and at once when he had gained to power and started breaking up this Kahal monopoly, it set its publicity machinery at work all over the world to defame and misrepresent him, suggest boycotts, and introduce resolutions in houses of government which if acted upon would lead to war.
Now, do you in your organization quote with approval those senti- ments expressed in that statement ? That is on page 42, beginning with the second paragraph.
Mr. Pelley. I understand by that statement — Yes, sir. I subscribe to it.
Mr. Starnes. Then you further state along in the same paragraph, toward the end of it :
Hitler had thrown a big monkeywrench into the Kahal's machinery in its steady progress for international domination.
Mr. Pellet. Correct.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Chairman, will you find out what the Kahal is?
Mr. Starnes. ^Yhi\t is the Kahal ? Is that an international council ?
Mr. Pellet. An international Jewish organization; yes, sir, of which there is very much literature in existence ; and I refer you to the history written by Mrs. Nestor Webster. That has a full account of it. She gives it in several of her books.
Mr. Starnes. On page 43, in the first full paragraph, further dis- cussing the work of this Kahal in Germany and how Hitler dealt with it, I quote :
Hitler saw the sword of Damocles hanging over Germany and in saving Ger- many from this insidious foe it meant that he acted as any courageous leader would act to defend his country, which, in brief, was to protect it from the false Jew. America ought to be grateful for the barrier that is thus being created in its behalf, rather than join with those who are on record as having ulterior designs against this country which was once the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Your organization quoted that with approval.
Mr. Pellet. May I answer that question with qualifications?
Mr. Starnes. Answer it first and then you may qualify it.
Mr. Pellet. Yes; I understand.
Mr. Starnes. You quote it.
Mr. Pellet. I subscribed to it qualified by a request of this com- mittee that, if you will put it into the record, I would like to put in the statement the information or data on which I based that opinion.
Mr. Starnes. You may attach that as an exhibit.
Mr. Pellet. I may?
Mr. Starnes. Because this is only an exhibit, you see. That is all that the document is. In quoting your testimony we can incorporate that as an exhibit.
Mr. Pellet. In other words, Avoidd that appear in the record?
Mr. Starnes. That would depend.
Mr. Pellet. Would it become a part of the record?
Mr. Starnes. It would depend entirely on how voluminous it was.
Mr. Pellet. For instance, if I do, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Starnes. To make a long story short, you may bring your data to the committee and submit it ; and then, after discussing it with you, if tlie committee feels that it should be incorporated in this record, we will do so.
UN-AMEIULAN I'KorACJANDA ACTIVITIES 7245
Mr. Pei.lky. You nionu in exocntive session?
Mr. Stakxks. Xo. You may binn<>- it to an open session. It is quite all rioht for you to do that. We ])refer that. Then we can -determine whetliei- or not it is too lengtliy to incorporate it or whether it is proper to ilo so.
I think there is one other question that 1 wanted to ask you concern- inu: this ])uhlicati()n.
I hand you herewith, Mr. Pelley, for your examination, a small circuhir or l)0()klet with your picture
Mr. Peiley. All ri<>ht! 1 identify it without handing it down.
Mr. Staknes. Can you identify it?
Mr. Pellet. Yes,
^Ir. Stakxes. That is an authentic l)Ooklet ?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. One that was published by you?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starxes. And sent out by your organization?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starxes. It is entitled ''What You Should Know About the Pelley Publications."
Mr. PELiJiT. Yes.
Mr. Starxes. ^Ir. Voorhis of California has a question that lie would like to ask you now.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Pelley, on the very last page, as part of your conclusions, I read you this :
No one should be so asinine as to think that the Jewish-Bolshevik gang are going to relinquish their gains-to-date without a struggle. No one should he .so childish as to think that an ordinary I'arty-switching election will right the Ship of State, nor get the idea that a crisis can be avoided, a collapse staved off.
]\Ir. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis [reading] :
There is no need to despair at the suggestion that a revolutionary condition cannot be prevented.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. Get this:
even if it could be circumvented our people and our Nation would fall right back into the same old indolent ways of thinking and living, tolerating the same subversive elements.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. A little further down it says:
But to elfect the necessary purge, the disruption must come, the crisis must be met —
And so on.
Now, Mr. Pelley. is there any other group of people in the country to your knowledge who take the position that a trial of force some- Avhere along the line is going to be necessary, besides this statement of yours?
Mr. Pellet. Well, Mr. Voorhis, I am not subscribing to that. That is not my statement. It is a statement published by my pub- lishing house.
Mr. VooRHis. But this booklet is by one of your very members of the organization that you sponsor and are entirely familiar with ?
7246 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Pellet. All rio;lit. We won't quibble with it. Mr. VooRHis. I didn't mean to say anythinc; further. I presume in view of that fact that you stand on this book '?
Mr. Pelley. I subscribe to the general sentiment ; and I am very fearful that up to the time that Mr. Dies and his committee began to investig'ate the subversive activities, that that same disruption then that I referred to was on the make.
Mv. VoouHis. I wanted you to answer the question as I asked it.
Mr. Pelley. Pardon me. What was the question?
Mr. VooRHis. Whether there is any other group to your knowledge in the Nation which takes an exactly parallel idea with that, namely, that at some place along the line of development there must be a trial of force, that is, a revolutionary condition taking place.
Mr. Pelley. Any otlier group that has been sponsoring that? You mean besides the Silver Legion?
Mr. VooRHis. The same thing in different words.
Mv. Pelley. Besides the Silver Legion ?
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Mr. Pelley. I imagine, 60 or TO percent of the so-called vigilante organizations in the United States take that same view.
Mr. VooRHis. So does the Communist Party, doesn't it ?
Mr. Pelley. I would indict the Communist Party as being pro- vocative of the very thing that we are trying to
Mr. VooRHis. The Communist Party says in different words prac- tically the same thing that you say there, don't they ? Their position is that the time is going to come when force will have to be used?
Mr. Pelley. But they are taking the angle, Mr. Vooi-his, that force will have to be used to accomplish their objective.
Mr. VooRHis. Then you are taking the view that force will have to be used to accomplish your objective?
Mr. Pelley. If they employ force, force would have to be met with force.
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. VooRiiis. Yes. Force would have to be met with force.
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. That is O. K. We will put it on that basis. Both groups at both extremes say that same thing.
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. Isn't it also true that you would have great difficulty securing members for your organization unless you could point out another group that was a danger to the country in your opinion?
Mr. Pelley. I don't think that that word "difficulty" should figure in there. No. I wouldn't say "difficulty."
Mr. VooRiiis. Do you think that you could get just as many sup- porters if you didn't tell them that there was a great danger of a revolutionary condition and a collapse?
Mr. Pelley. My dear IMr. Voorhis, dozens of people wrote in to me and said, "Thank God I have found someone who agrees with my views, and I want to join." I have no active proselyters out trying to pull people into the Silver Legion. I haven't had for 2 years.
Mr. VooRHis, My only question w^as if you could get as many members if it were not for the fact that you painted this picture that is painted on the last page of this book.
UN-AMERICAN rROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7247
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Voorhis, I really believe in a condition matnr-
niir — —
Mr. VooRTiis. I am not qnestioning that, Mr. Pelley. But it is true, is it not. that this picture of a revolutionary condition about to come is a picture that you are setting up?
Mr. Pelley. But look how our situation has changed in the last year and a half.
Mr. ^"coKHIS. I think it has myself.
Mr. Pelley. Certainly. In fact
Mr. VooRHis. Now, iVant to ask you one more question, and then I am through.
Isn't it true, IMr, Pelley, that it is altogether possible that with groups on the two extremes of society, both saying that the time will come when force must be used and that we must prepare for that time, that you are gradually going to run a very distinct risk of whittling away tlie allegiance to the constitutional government of the Nation and increase the likelihood of the very thing that you say you are trying to prevent ?
Mr. Pelley.' Mr. Voorhis, I subscribe to that so completely and with the work which has been done by the Dies committee — and I have expressed it outside in publications — that if its work continues and goes on tlie Silver Shirt Legion stops. We have no more use for it.
Mr. YooRiiis. But, you see, much of the work of the Dies commit- tee is directed against all organizations of that character, including yourself.
Mr. Pelley. That is perfectly permissible, and I am glad for you to do it.
Mr. Thomas. Do I understand you to say that if the Dies com- mittee continues with its investigations the Silver Legion will imme- diately fold up?
Mr. Pelley. I would say yes, with my blessing. If the Dies com- mittee will <ro ahead
(r>
iSIr. Thomas. That answers the question.
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairman, may I saj' something?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Mason. In view of the fact that the League for Peace and Democracv. which was an oroanization of the Communist Partv, has folded up, and you now announce that the Silver Shirt Legion may fold up if the Dies committee continues, perhaps with the help of such compacts as there exists between Hitler and Stalin and Stalin's attack upon Finland, and the work of the Dies committee and all the rest of it, all of these might have a tendency to fold up. Is that right ?
Mr. Pelley. Fine; yes.
Mr. Mason. And that is because of the philosophy that our Mr. Voorhis has expressed, that when you have two groups one opposing the other, one feeding upon hatred of the other, that keeps whittling away at the group in the middle, which is the constitutional group?
Mr. Pelley. Yes. But, Mr. Mason, may I ask a question?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
!Mr. Mason. Yes. I want your expression on that.
Mr. Pelley. Fine.
94931— 40— vol. 12 4
7248 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
I repeat, when this whole thing was started I couldn't even get Members of the Congress to take the attitude that they have taken here since 193.S. You have my hopes. You are doing a good job.
And while it leaves itself open to misinterpretation, and I do it in the face of some sort of, we will say, moral intimidation from the Dies committee, and I am perfectly willing to be indicted on the score of that interi)retation, I am honest nevertheless in saying that if the Dies committee goes ahead and licks the subversive elements in this Nation, my work is done.
Mr. Mason. On both sides, the right and tlie left ?
Mr. Pellet. That is right. Absolutely. And I will bless the Dies connnittee the day that they do it. And the mistaken impression is gone then about my own desires and ambitions in this.
Mr. Starnes. Tlie Giair wants to say that we don't care anything about praise nor condemnation. We don't seek it from the right or from the left, from witnesses or nonwitnesses. We are trying to dis- cover the facts about un-American activities in this country.
As has been so ably stated by some of the other members of the committee, if the Silver Shirt Legion folds up and goes out of existence, it won't be the first by any means that has folded up and gone out of existence since this investigation was begun.
We want to make it very clear as a matter of record that we seek neither praise nor condemnation insofar as this witness is con- cerned. We have listened to condemnation from the right and from the left, and it has gone into the record. I cannot see that it has contributed anything to the investigation.
I must remind all of you that I hope you will make your answers responsive to the questions, because personally I am one individual on this committee that does not care what anybody thinks about the connnittee. All I am after is trying to find out the truth about un- American and subversive activities.
I will concede that every American citizen may think as he pleases. But I don't care to have the record cluttered up with praise nor con- demnation, because the witness, like some members of the committee, has expressed both praise and condemnation of the committee itself.
Mr. Pellet. Eight.
Mr. Starnbs. The witness has bitterly condemned this committee. The witness has sued this committee.
Mr. Pellet. Eight.
]\Ir. Starnes. The \vitness has bitterly excoriated, as he has a perfect right to do as an American citizen, this committee. The members of this committee itself have bitterly criticized some of its procedure and its rulings, and have voted against its continuance, and then have worked along with it.
Therefore the Chair is going to say here and now that I don't care for any more expressions from the witness or from members of this committee concerning whether it is good or bad. All he wants is the truth.
Mr. Dempset. You are not going to get the truth, because he has sued the committee for $500,000.
Mr. Starnes. It was a million dollars. But let us proceed with the business. Have you finished with The Hidden Empire, Mr. Voorhis ?
Mr. VooEHis. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7249
Mr. Starnes. Now, I should like to ask the witness some ques- tions here concernino; a statement set fortli in What You Should Know About the Pelley Publications.
On what we have numbered page 5 for convenience, I find this
statement :
The purposo of the Silver Legion was to enlighten and train leaders who should be competent to act iu a time of criisis —
Mr. PixLEY. Yes.
Mr. Starxes (continuino;) :
binding them together lu a unified whole — so that there might be cooperation jind cohesion among them throughout the forty-eight States.
Was that a military form of action? Mr. Pellet. No.
Mr. Starnes. Or a political form of action?
Mr. Pellet. In the last 2 years, Mr. Chairman, the whole trend of the Silver Legion has been toward political enlightenment. Mr. Starnes. Political action? Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir. Mr. Starnes. I quote further from this document :
To recruit millions of men would take too much time, but if a handful of influ- ential people were recruited in each place, and those people stepped forth and assumed charge of aroused citizens when red-strilve situations such as at Warren, Ohio, were precipitating the destruction of citizen life and property, the effect would be the same as though those aroused citizens were tacit members of the Ijcgion itself.
Mr. Pellet. I subscribe to that. I don't see anything un-American in it.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't that a form of vigilante action that you men- tioned
Mr. Pellet. I don't see anything un-American in any form of vigi- lante action.
Mr. Starnes. You are not responsive, and I haven't completed my question. In Official Dispatch No. 1 you spoke of setting up an ac- tive, dynamic, vigilante organization?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Now, is this in pursuance of that same type of philosophy ?
Mr. Pellet. It is not, and I told you we abandoned that first type of activity in 1934, and have not resumed it.
Mr. Starnes. A moment ago you said that in sending forth that first manifesto, this Official Dispatch No. 1, that you thought that that should be based on a democratic procedure of 51 percent or more of the citizens of the country.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. And this specific statement is that to recruit millions of men will take too much time.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Are you advocating in here that a minority should step forth and take charge?
Mr. Peixet. No. I am not. At least, that is not the intent of that statement.
Mr. Starnes. That is not the intent of that statement?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. The intent of the statement is that if Ave ever come to an economic or political crisis, or crack-up, as we very fre-
7250 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
quently use the term, which is better — to have a group that knows something about what it is to do to attempt to restore hxw and order, or to have a wild bunch running riot?
Mr. Starnes. I quote further just one sentence aft^r these two quo- tations which I have read :
Such was Pelley's plan and the Silver Legion started.
Now, was it the policy of your organization and yourself to step in as a vigilante organization whenever there was a strike?
Mr, Pellet. Indeed, no.
Mr. Starnes. Was your organization opposed to the right to strike and the right to organize on the part of labor?
Mr. Pellet. Absolutely not.
Mr. Starnes, That is not the construction that should be placed on that?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. That was not the intent of the writer of it when he wrote it or printed or circulated it.
Mr. Starnes. Now, speaking about yourself — and this publication here refers to you specifically — on page 7, in the paragraph entitled "Hewing to the Line," I quote :
He knows that a vast economic crisis is ahead, as the aftermath of NRA havoc visits its rigors on the Nation. But he rests covfident that he knoivs how to instruct his men what to do at its arrival, precisely as he has called the shots iinen-inghj mi the Overseas gang to the moment.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Now, what do you mean by this expression, that you know how to instruct your men what to do upon the arrival of this crisis?
Mr. Pellet. They have utterly familiarized themselves with the tactics of the subversive forces for 7 years, or for the length of time that they have been in the organization, and don't join in with them.
Remember that that force is predicated on the stipulation of a crisis. That was the essence of the dociunent when it was written and published.
Mr. Starnes. But you claim in this same statement that the eco- nomic crisis was the aftermath of N. R. A. havoc?
Mr. Pellet. By Jove, I believe it was.
Mr. Starnes. And that you are confident that you know how to instruct the men Avhat to do when this crisis arises.
Mr. Pellet, Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Was it your intention and your idea that your or- ganization at that moment should step in
Mr. Pellet. No.
Mr. Starnes. And take any sort of drastic action
Mr. Pellet. No.
Mr. Starnes. AVhich would force people out, as was stated in an earlier publication of yours here, out of office and put people of your own persuasion in?
Mr. Pellet. No; because we coidd not. Mr. Chairman, if there had been a complete overthrow, on which that is j^redicated, there would be no people in office: so they could not be forced out.
Mr. Starnes. This booklet here. What You Should Know About the Pelley Publications, is a current publication ?
Mr. Pellet. No.
UN-A.MKKKAX rU()rA(!AXDA ACTIVITIES 7251
Mr. Starnes. It is not current?
Afr. Pf.lley. No. It is just a little leaflet that was given out in explanation of the ])ublications.
-Mr. Thomas. What is the date? That has been published just recently, hasn't it?
Mr. Starxes. I am tryinfj to find it.
IMr. Pelley. That was published about a year ago.
]Mr. Starnes. Have you any questions, Mr. Voorhis, on that?
Mr. Voorhis. I would like to address myself to the 51 percent for just a moment, ^Ir. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Voorhis. Mr. Pelley, I have here one of these little green books that you sent out for the purpose of instructing the members. Isn't that what they are for?
Mr, Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. I would like to read just a little bit from page 11. It says :
Too many prospective Silver Sliirts gain the idea that nothing can be clone in this Nation, toward yanking it out of its doldrums, putting down the New Dealers, and paving the way for the Christian commonwealth, until at least 51 per cent of our jieople have been sold on defensive tactics and have pledged their allegiance to men like Pelley, Zacharay, and others^leading the same sort of fight in America.
Men like Pelley, Zachary, and others, know in utter candor that the time never is going to arrive when thev can sell 51 per cent of this Nation on the Silver Shirts.
In the first place the enemy ensconced in the Federal Government — precisely as it first ensconced itself in the Federal Government of Spain — is not going to allow men like Pelley, Zacharay, and others, to gain the ear of public atten- tion, if it can help it. Furthermore, there isn't time, or general intelligence enough, in the rank and file, for 51 per cent of our people to grasp the necessity for direct action, sanely taken, that they fall in voluntarily behind a leader, and help themselves.
Prospective Silver Shirts, right off the bat. must get such notions out of their lieads. The great juass of the people can be enlightened with tons of expose literature — true. It can be made as erudite and sympathetically minded as possible, so as to minimize opposition when the time comes for action.
P>ut Hitler had it right when he said in "My Battle" — "Mein Kampf"— "Human- ity is made up of three great classes. First, there are good men at the top, Avhich the masses will follow. Second, there are bad men at the bottom, which the masses will not resist. Third, in between is the great sheep flock of humanity, pitifully wanting peace, that will do anything but fight."
But here is the great salvation of the proposition, which every true leader knows : "If this great majority won't fight the projectors of suliversion and tur- moil— at least with anything but talk — neither will it effectively oppose any force that may come along with the intent of putting down subversion and turmoil."
I just wondered in connection with your answer to the chairman on the question of whether you were ready to abide by the decision of 51 percent of the people, arrived at in a constitutional manner, what you have to say about that passage. It seems to me that it contradicts what you said before.
Mr. Pelley. Mr. Voorhis, if I may just for a moment go back and answer your question as to intent and motive :
I have tried to expound that there is a great situation economically ahead of us. We have tried to prepare for it and enlighten people as to its fundamentals, hoping thereby to make them efficient in a time of crisis, to do something.
7252 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIA'ITIES
Mr. VooRHis. Don't you believe that the economic problem can be solved within the framework of our Constitution?
Mr. Pelley. I tliink that as lonj^ as the committee keeps after the subversive elements that are making it bad, I do; and I hope and pray that it is going to.
Mr. Casey. Did you ever try to achieve your aims by obtaining 5i percent of the people's approval?
Mr. Pelley. My dear Mr. Casey, I tried so hard to do it. I even went out to the Pacific coast in 1936
Mr. Casey. I think you have answered. You tried to do it?
Mr. Pelley. Very sincerely.
Mr. Casey. That was the aim of the Silver Shirts at one time, at least ?
Mr. Pelley. That has been the aim of the Silver Shirts all the way through, and it still is.
Mr. Casey. And you are the acknowledged leader of the Silver- Shirts?
Mr. Pelley. I am.
Mr. Casey. And if the Silver Shirts had achieved their aim, woulcL you have been the man in charge of the Government ?
Mr. Pelley. Probably, if our constitutional government
Mr. Casey. I think you have answered the question.
Mr. Pelley. It is only fair to let me qualify that, Mr. Casey.
If our constitutional government had gone down, as it has gone down in similar constitutional governments, as they have gone down in other countries, it has been in my estimation a matter of one man, with those around him who understand the situation, who have been the resuscitation of those countries.
Mr. Casey. And if you had become the leader of the country, would you have put into effect Hitler's policies so far as they are referable to the anti-Jewish policy?
Mr. Pelley. I probably would, sir.
Mr. Starnes. I believe you said in your testimony yesterday that you started your organization with a group of individuals in 1933?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And that you inaugurated it in the early part of 1934?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And that you were investigated by the so-called. McCormack committee in the early part of 1934 ?
Mr. Pelley. In May.
Mr. Starnes. In May?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. At that time they seized all of your records. I be- lieve that your testimony was that they got everything except one typewriter ?
Mr. Pelley. Very much so.
May I qualify that ? The action that was taken at that time was taken in conjunction with the receivership and bankruptcy of the Galahad Press.
Mr. Starnes. I see.
Mr. Pelley. Afterwards, Mr. Chairman, we had to bring suit in the Federal court to have the receiver in bankruptcy relinquish the
UN-AMEIU(\VX PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7253
records and the fiiiaiiees and books of the Silver Legion, which they had no rijjht to touch ; and the judge so ruled.
Mr. Starnes. And you made the statement or charge that certain of the documents later turned uj) in certain publications in this country '.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. At that time, in 11);H, I believe you stated that you had Yl States^ in which you had organizations at that time?
Mr. 1*ELLEY. In which I had posts or units.
Mr. Starnes. Posts or units?
Mr. Pellet. Don't call tliem organizations. Call them units.
Mi-. Starnes. In 19H1) you luid 22 States?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
ISIr. Starnes. In 1935 how many did you have ? Do you know ?
]\Ir. Pellet. No. I cannot tell you. In 1935? Wait a minute. In 1935 we were out, inactive. We didn't do anything.
Mr. Starnes. You came back in 1936?
Mr. Pfxlet. In 1936. The early part of 1937.
Mr. Starnes. Since that time you have been expanding? You said you had spontaneous groups in 22 States.
Now, this Liberation is an official publication of your organization?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. I have a copy here inider date of February 24, 1934. On page 1, I ([uote :
Christians of America, the tragedy which Hitler avoided must be forestalled in these United States.
That is in volume 6, No. 1.
And on page 3 appears the statement :
American .Jewry openly acknowledges its admiration for Communism, that Communism is Jewish.
Then in an article entitled "Will There Be a Slaugliter of Gentiles in x^merica?" on page 4 comes this quotation:
Let us turn from Russia and see what m\gM have happened in Oermany, if it had not been for Hitler.
And then this other quotation, and this is in italics :
With the undeniable connect ions between Marxism, Communism and World- Jewry, it became tragically apparent that the life of Oermany depended upon a tussle rrith Jeirri/ to actually settle xvhich race teas the strongest in German life.
This was the message which Hitler brought to the Teutons.
That is documentarv corroboration of vour own statement made to the connnittee in the course of your testimony during the past 2 days, wliich indicated that you did admire Hitler very much for his manner of handling the Jewish situation, and you approved of his manner of handling the question of the Jewish people in Germany ; is tliat correct?
i\Ir. Pellet. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Do you admire Hitler for his compact with Stalin, which was entered into in 1939 ?
Mr. Pellet. I decidedly do not.
Mr. Starnes. So you changed your mind about Hitler as you have about the
7254 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Pellet. About the Dies committee.
Mr. Starnes. About other organizations?
Mr. Pellet. The Dies committee.
Mr. Starves. About this committee?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. On March 17, 1934, in another copy of Liberation, there appears an article entitled "Silver Shirts, Don't Be Fooled by Startling Propaganda." I fuid there this statement, I quote :
The fact that the Jew is in the seat of power makes but oue issue in these United States, and that is the forcible removal of the Jew from office, or from controlling public office. It is just as simple as that and some day it will be just as simply realized. The Silver Legion takes such a stand because it has sufficient evidence at hand to impeach and convict the great mass of them.
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Now, you advocated officially in your official publica- tion the forcible removal of Jews from public office in the United States?
Mr. Pellet. I wouldn't want to endorse that statement to the extent that I believe in violence in doing it. Force and violence are two different things. You can be very forceful about a thing, even in your speech, but you are not employing violence.
Mr. Starnes. You are making that as a qualifying statement, then, to this article?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Mason. In this connection, your difference between the words "force" and "violence," isn't it true, Mr. Pelley, that all through your writings you have carefully selected words that to the great mass of people mean one thing, but which you in your reservation in your mind think of as meaning another thing?
Now, to the great mass of people, to use force means physical force. To you, who have a clear distinction of the difference in words, it does not mean physical violence at all. It means something else.
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Mason. Do you get my point?
Mr. Pellet. I get your point.
Mr. Mason. And I think that after reading some of your literature, that that runs all the way through — a careful selection of words that mean one thing to the mass and mean another thing to the writer.
Mr. Pellet. Well, Mr. Mason, not with mischievous intent. Now, that is a matter
Mr. Mason. I understand. But that would be a fair, however, analysis of a person who knows something about the meaning of "words to make ?
Mr. Pellet. Yes. I would say that that would be a very fair analysis from your standpoint; but not with mischievous intent.
Mr. Starnes. However, you do or did advocate such force as was necessary to remove them?
Mr. Pellet. No. I want to repudiate any writing that was in- tended to remove any person from any Government position, regard- less of race, by violence.
Mr. Starnes. But you do admit that that would be a fair inter- pretation of that article b}^ the mass of people of this country — that w^hen you say that they should be driven from office or removed from
UN-AMERIOAX I'UOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7255
office by force, tluit it would be a faii- interpretation, as Mr. Mason bas just said?
^Ir. Pelley. :Mi«ibt I just see tbat article, Mr. Cbairman? AVould you let me see the nature of the publication?
(Mr. Starnes banded a document to the witness.)
Mr. Pelley. That is such an isolated instance, a thing like that.
Mr. Staknes. That is :March 17, 1934.
There are some other questions that I wanted to ask you, and then we will come back to that.
I have here Pelley "s the Silver Shirt Weekly. Is that an official publication of yom's also?
Mr. Pelley. Yes. That was published during the time that liti- gation was on down there, when the Silver Legion w^as entirely -
Mr. Starnes. This was sent out to the members of the Silver Shirts and was regarded as their official publication; is that correct?
]\Ir. Pelley. It might be interpreted that way.
Mr. Starnes. At that time Mr. Robert C. Summerville was a mem- ber of your statf at the national headci[uarters ?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. I believe you said a moment ago that he didn't sever his connection with the Silver Legion until 1936.
I\Ir. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. I find here on page 4, in an article entitled, "Are You ]\[entally Prepared for the Events of 1935?" the following, I quote:
The Jews have the money but the Genliles have the numbers. No matter what meaj^ures toward repression may be taken — in the sacred name of preserv- ing existing institutions — it will be a very fine thing in that hour not to be a Jew.
Don't you think that a fair interpretation by the average citizen reading tliat would be that there was a threat of force to be applied against the people of the Jewish race in this country from some soui'ce ?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You admit that that is a fair interpretation?
iNIr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Casey. I wish the witness would not bow his head. The stenographer cannot get it.
Mr. Starnes. The answer is "Yes."
Mr. Pelley. I beg your pardon.
Mr. Starnes. I note that you are carried on the editorial page here as being the editor in chief of the Pelley Weekly.
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. I would like you to identify this document, if you can do so. It is entitled "How Much Do You Know About the Secret Government of Our Nation?" It is bulletin No. 3, national headquarters, box 2630, Asheville, N. C. See if you can identify that.
Mr. Pelley. This particular document — I remember it — was pub- lished in the latter part of 1933 or early 1934, while I was on the Pacific coast, from a manuscript which was brought down to head- quarters by Mr. Collie.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Collie was at that time treasurer or secretary?
Mr. Pelley. No. He w^as later in February one of the incor- porators, that is, in my office.
7256 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Box 2630 at Asheville was the national headquarters?
Mr. Pelley. That is true. It was put out under my auspices in my absence. I did not have the editing of it. So I cannot qualify as approving its sentiments. I don't think it was given out without my counsel.
Mr. Starnes. Do you approve of this statement here, that this is one of the ideals of the organization at that time :
But if you are 18 years of age, of reasonably sounrl health, and not afraid to risk vour life and limb for your c-ouutry, you are asked to take the oath of consecration upon you, and step out as a TRUE CHRISTIAN SOLDIER, garbed in a shirt of Silver?
Mr. Pelley. I don't see anything un-American in that sort of thing.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat was contemplated? What was the necessity that was felt would arise to cause American citizens of that type to risk their lives for their country?
Mr. Pelley. Because we still maintained as a fundamental of our organization that the subversive forces in this country were in such ascendancy that they were going to grab control.
Mr. Starnes. It was your thought that the American citizen of that kind might have to take up arms?
Mr. Pelley. I think so.
Mr. Starnes. Against people in his own country?
Mr. Pelley. Against what?
Mr. Starnes. Against these forces, people in his own country?
Mr. Pelley. Absolutely. I don't mean against the people them- selves.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Pelley. I am talking here about, not against, the Government of the people themselves. I am talking about some forces that have succeeded in doing the same things in countries overseas.
Mr. Starnes. I have here this official dispatch of the Silver Shirts of ximerica, Asheville, N. C. It is entitled "Silver Shirts of America are Mobilizinff to Protect Your Life. How Much are You Willing to Do for Them ?" That is an official dispatch ?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. I quote from page 3 of this official dispatch:
The only man in Europe who correctly understands the tie-up between Communism and the predatory elements among the Hebrews, is Hitler. He is maligned in this country because Hebrews are determined the stark trutli shall not be known, and use every agency of publicity to disparage and vilify him.
Was that a correct statement of your attitude at that time concern- ing Hitler ?
Mr. Pelley. It was, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Toward people of tlie Jewish race in this country?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir. Not in this country. In Germany.
Mr. Starnes. You say that he is maligned in this country?
Mr. Pelley. Absolutely, Yes.
Mr. Starnes (continuing) :
Because the Hebrews are determined that the stark truth shall not be known, and use every agency of publicity
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7257
Mr. Staknes. In other words, this official dispatch of yours was a defense of Hitler.
I quote further from this same official dispatch, on page 4 :
On January 31. 1!).S3 — the day that Hitlor canio into power in Germany— Pelley came out from under cover with liis Silver Sliirt national organization.
Having planted depots of his facts throughout the entire United States, enlightened police and vigilante groups, secured the cooperation of outraged Christian citizens to carry on regardless of what happens to him personally, his organization of SILVL^H SHIRTS is now snow-hailing exactly as Hitler's Nazis snow-hailed in Germany when the German people were at last persuaded to the truth.
Is that an official expression on your part of the attitude, the aims, and the purposes of the Silver Legion, as contained in this official bulletin to its members^
jNIr. Pelley. It was.
Mr. Starnes. The committee stands adjourned until 2 o'clock.
(AVhereupon a recess was taken from 12:20 to 2 p. m.)
AFTER RECESS
The committee reassembled, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 2 o'clock p. m.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM DUDLEY PELLY— Resumed
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Pelley, for the sake of the record, I will ask you to identify a few of the publications or documents wdiich I shall hand to you, so they maj* be used as exhibits to your testimony.
I hand you herewith a publication or document entitled, "The Key to Crisis."
Mr. Pellet. Correct, that is all right.
Mr. Starnes. Can you identify that?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Staenes. Is that an official publication of the Pelley pub- lishers ?
Mr. Pelley. Right.
Mr. Starnes. And of the Silver Shirt Legion ?
Mr. Pelley. Right.
Mr. Starnes. And when I ask j^ou these questions, Mr. Pelley, in order to save us both vocal effort, it will be understood as to each and every one of them, separately and severally, we are identifying them as if they are so identified by you as being published by the Pelley Publishers and being official publications or publications en- dorsed by the Silver Shirt Legion and used by it in its program and its campaign ?
Mr. Pelley. That is good — that is all right.
Mr. Starnes. And you identify The Key to Crisis as being pub- lished by the Pelley Publishers and as an official pamphlet of the Silver Legion?
Mr. Pelley. Yes. sir: T do.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit 1.")
Mr. Starnes. I have another here called "Cripples' Money."
Mr. Pelley. Yes. sir.
7258 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. You identify that?
Mr. Pelley. I do.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pellej^ Exhibit No. 2.")
Mr. Starnes. I have a third one which we find entitled "Our Secret Political Police."
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
Mr. Starxes. Is that correct?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And you so identify it?
Mr. Pelley. Yes.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 3.")
Mr. Starnes. The Hidden Empire. You have already identified that ?
Mr. Pelley. Ili<2;ht.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes and heretofore identified, was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 4.")
Mr. Starnes. We have another, What Manner of Government is the Christ to Set Up.
Mr. Pelley, Right. However, ISIr. Starnes, that is one which was issued prior to 1934, as I explained this morning, on the previous program which we have since abandoned.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 5.")
Mr. Starnes. Then There is a Jewish World Plot, Jews Say So.
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 6.")
Mr. Starnes. Then here is another one entitled "Indians Aren't Eed."
Mr. Pelley. That is right.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 7.")
Mr. Starnes. Then another one which may prove very interesting :: What Every Congressman Should Know.
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 8.")
Mr. Starnes. Then another: Dupes of Judah.
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 9.")
Mr. Starnes. And another one entitled, "Duress and Persuasion."
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 10.")
Mr. Starnes. Thei\ a larger one entitled, "No More Hunger by Pelley."
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 11.")
Mr. Starnes. Then finally a pamphlet entitled, "The President Knows."
UX-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7259
Mr. Pellet. But not -written by me.
Mr. Starnes. Xot Avritten by you ?
Mr. Pellet. Correct.
Mr. Starnes. However, that is published by the Pelley Publishers?
Mr. Pellet. As ]iublishers, yes, sir.
Mr. Starxes. And is disseminated by the organization?
Mr. Pellet. It was. It has not been for the past year.
Mr. Starnes. It has been but not during the past year?
Mr. Pelij:t. Correct.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 12.")
Mr. Starnes. Xow. the connnittee will reserve the right, of course, to ask you questions concerning passages in any of these documents at a later date.
Mr. Pellet. Correct.
Mr. Starnes. We are merely introducing them now in order to save time when we do refer to them, but they are now officially identified and made a part of the record.
In connection with your publications, have you ever taken material from World Service ?
jNIr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you do that with or without crediting the source ?
Mr. Pellet. That I can't answer, ISIr. Chairman, unless you give me particular instances in which it is quoted.
Mr. Starnes. Did you use any other German Nazi literature in your publications other than from World Service ?
Mr. Pellet. Not that I recall at the present moment. I may have done so.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Pelley should try to re- fresh his memory a little bit more. He has answered a great many questions over the past few days by not being able to recall. Cer- tainly he should be able to remember whether he did that or not.
Mr. Starnes. You mean as to whether he used other sources of material ?
Mr. Thomas. Yes.
^Ir. Starnes. What is your best recollection about that, as to whether you used other German Nazi literature in your publications with or without crediting the sources other than World Service?
Mr. Pellet. To be frank with you, Mr. Chairman, I don't know of any other Nazi publication that has come to my desk except World Service. May I answer Mr. Thomas' question?
Mr. Starnes. Yes; in just a moment. I want to ask you a ques- tion. World Service, of course, you can identify as a service of German origin?
Mr. Pelley. No; I cannot, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. You do not?
I\Ir. Pellet. No ; I do not. I cannot do that. I don't know that it is.
Mr. Starnes. You know it is reputed to be?
Mr. Pellet. Yes; in the press.
Mr. Starnes. And it comes from Stuttgart, Germany?
Mr. Pellet. E-f-o-r-t, isn't it?
Mr. VooRHis. E-r-f-u-r-t.
7260 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVPriES
Mr. Starnes. We shall not quarrel over the spelling, but it does come from Germany?
Mr. Pelley. I believe so.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Pelley. I would just like to answer Mr. Thomas, if I may.
Mr. Starnes. What is your question? [Addressing Mr. Thoinas.]
Mr. Thomas. I haven't asked a question.
Mr. Pelley. He said I had a very weak memory, and I would like to elucidate on that.
Mr. Starnes. No; he says he did not ask you any questions. Were you a candidate for President of the United States in 193G?
Mr. Pelley. On the Christian Party ticket, Washington States yes.
Mr. Starnes. That is out on the Pacific coast?
Mr. Pelley. Correct.
Mr. Starnes. Did you speak during that campaign in furtherance of your candidacy on the Pacific coast ?
Mr. Pelley. Seventeen times in 34 days.
Mr. Starnes. Was this a portion of your program or platform? I quote :
It has been estimated that ten million Jews have come into the United States since the World War, in utter contempt for the immigration quota laws.
By the power of vast sums of money taken from the American people by the depredations of the Jews during the depression, they have everywhere wormed their way into political control, financial domination and relief admin- istration. Christian gentiles by the hundreds of thousands have had their properties foreclosed on them or sold for high taxes.
Twenty million American natives are jobless but how many Jews do you see jobless or impoverished.
Then you go on to say :
I propose to disfranchise the Jews by constitutional amendment to make it impossible for a Jew to own property in the United States excepting under the same licensing system successfully employed against Occidentals in Japan ; to limit Jews in the professions, trades and sciences, by license according to their quota of representation in the population.
Mr. Pelley. I absolutely endorse and stand by that 100 percent, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Did you speak in Los Angeles durin.g the course of that campaign?
Mr. Pelley. I did, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You did?
Mr. Pelley. I did.
Mr. Starnes. I will ask you when you spoke in the German hall in Los Angeles on Jtdy 18, 1936, if you declared:
The time has come for an American Hitler and
Mr. Pelley. No, sir; I did not. I do not recall such words being spoken by myself.
Mr. Starnes. Or anything to that effect?
Mr. Pelley. No, sir; I liave never spoken of any pogrom against the Jewish people. In fact I have worked for 7 years to control elements that were trying to agitate exactly that thing.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question at this point?
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Voorhis wishes to ask you a question.
Mr. VooRHL-f. Mr. Pelley, on that very point : Here is a book of yours, What Fifty Famous Men Have to Say About the Jews.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7261
Mr. Pellet. Yos, sir.
Mv. VooRHis. And the last one in there is by James W. Gerard, former Ambassador to Germany.
Mr. Pellet. Eiiiht.
Mr. VooRiiis. And lie is quoted in this book— I don't know wliether he said this but you probably looked it up I assume, and he is quoted here as saying :
As a fritnul of the Jewish race I want to state that if ever the American Nation gets the idea that the Jewish race and communism are synonymous, there is a possihility of a pogrom in the United States that will make those of the czars look like a small parade.
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. That is published in one of your booklets. And in another of your booklets devoted in large part to criticism of the Dies Committee, you make this statement, which you make elsewhere as well :
Communism is Jewish, say these older and wiser persons.
Mv. Pellet. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Now, if both of those statements taken together are to be taken seriously by people, it looks to me as though the effect of your work Avould be in the direction of a pogrom.
]\Ir. Pellet. ]\Ir. Voorhis, there is a very important point there. The statement of Ambassador Gerard was uttered in East Orange, N. J., on the date specified, and I received it from the Jewish press and copied it in my publication.
Xow, you cannot credit that to me.
Mr. VooRHis. I am not crediting it to you.
Mr. Pellet. Then I fail to get the question.
Mr. YooRHis. It is publislied in your booklet.
Mr. Pellet. Correct, I requoted it.
Mr. Voorhis. And ;vou, yourself, have you made the point here toda}' and elsewhere in your writings that communism and the Jewish race are practically synonymous?
Mr. Pellet. Yes, sir ; in spite of the fact, in answ^er to Mr. Demp- sey's question this morning — I believe you agreed — maybe you did not agree, but at any rate Mr. Dempsey made the point that only a small percentage of the Jewish people could be termed Communists by any stretch of the imagination. The point I am trying to make is that I think the effect of those publications — in other words, Mr. Voorhis. woiildnY you distinguish between the fact that I quotecl Mr. Gerard in his remarks about a pogrom as an instance of some- thing we must avoid? Isn't that plainly set forth in there?
Mr. Voorhis. No ; I don't think it is.
Mr. Pellet. In other words— may I ask for information? Your assumption is, then, that in quoting Mr. Gerard I am endorsing a poo^rom ?
Mr. ^^ooRHIS. No. In quoting :Mr. Gerard to the effect that you did quote him, whether you quoted iiim correctly or not, I cannot say, but in quoting that and then in contending as you do contend that these two tilings are synonymous— communism" and Jews are synonymous — the effect of your work would appear to me to be along the line of the chairman's questioning when he asked vou about your speech where you spoke of the pogrom.
7262 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Voorhis, is it proper at this moment to make this statement in answer to your question : How happens it if insinuations contained in your question are correct, in 7 j^ears of activity there lias been no instance of any violence or any act — overt act — against any individual Jew in the United States by any Silver Shirt, that has my sanction ? Isn't that a sufficient answer to the integrity of what I am trying to do?
Mr. VooRHis. Well, that would be the record up to date.
Mr. Pellet. Right; thank you.
Mr. VooEHis. What we were talking about was: What the program in the future is.
Mr. Pellet. Now, Mr. Chairman, may I make one statement more? Mr. Gerard went on record in the Jewish press, which issues I can pro- duce under notification, with this statement which Mr. Voorhis has quoted.
I copied that in my publications as an instance of what Mr. Gerard said might happen in this United States, and for 7 years I have en- deavored to stop exactly that thing, because I believe that unrestricted and w^ithout the proper control it might happen.
Mr. Voorhis. But I don't see how you say the Jewish people and communism are synonymous. That is the point.
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Chairman, you have asked me to introduce a book called Jews Say So into the record. Does that mean the con- tents of it goes into the record ?
Mr. Starnes. No; we asked you to identif}^ these officially as pub- lications, either edited and written by you or members of your staff or published by j^our company and disseminated by your organization, as being representative of the viewpoint of the Silver Shirt Legion on these particular questions.
Mr. Mason. They are merely exhibits.
Mr. Starnes. They are merely exhibits and are not incorporated in the record.
Mr. Pellet. In other words, if there is an answer to the question propounded bv Mr. Voorhis, I would have to read it out of the book, is that right ? "
Mr. Starnes. That is right.
Mr. Pellet. In utmost integrity I reprinted in here something like 82 affirmations by Jews themselves that this program which I am criticized for, is true.
Mr. Starnes. That is attached as an exhibit and is available, of course, and as far as official records are concerned it is an official part of the record just like an exhibit in a court. It is not actually incor- porated in the record, but you understand that it is a part of the com- mittee's records.
Now, I failed to have you identify three other publications or, al- leged publications of the Pelley Publishers, which are representative of the official viewpoint of yourself and your organization. One is The Suppressed Speech of Maj. Gen. George V. H. Moseley.
Mr. Pellet. I identify that.
Mr. Starnes. "Before the Dies Committee on June 1, 1939."
Mr. Pellet. I identify that.
Mr. Starnes. You identify that pamphlet ?
INIr. Pellet. I do.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 13.")
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7263
Mr. Starnes. The other is, Is this Nation Ruled by Invisible Gov- ermnent. Do you identify that?
Mr. Pelij:y. I do, sir. It contains remarks of Hon. Jacob Tiiorkel- son, a member of the present Congress.
]\Ir. Starnes. You identify that?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 14.")
Mr. Starnes. Then the final one which we have is. Dies' Political Posse, Information for Gentile Patriots Served With Dies' Subpenas.
Mr. Pklley. I identify that.
Mr. Starnes. And in which I see there is anything but compli- mentary remarks to the Dies committee.
Mr. VooRHis. Ave you following those instructions now, Mr. Pel- ley ?
Ml'. Pellet. I am sorry to say I am not, Mr. Voorhis.
(The pamphlet referred to by Mr. Starnes was marked "Pelley Exhibit No. 15.")
Mr. Starnes. I hand you herewith, merely for the purpose of identification and to ask you some questions concerning the publica- tion of the Silver Legion Ranger, published in Los Angeles, Calif., dated AVednesday, February 21, 1934, and another issue dated Wed- nesday. April 18, 1934. Can 3'ou identify those?
Mr. Pellet. I can, sir.
(The papers referred to by Mr. Starrses were marked "Pelley Exhibits Nos. 16 and 17.")
Mr. Starnes. They are official publications of the organization?
]\lr. Pellet. They are, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Bv the wav, what was this Silver Legion Ranger?
Mr. Pellet. A tabloid publication which was issued by what we call the western headquarters of the Silver Legion in Los Angeles, Calif.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any particular group or selected group of any type or character within the Silver Shirt Legion that you call the Silver Rangers?
]Mr. Pellet. We did, Mr. Chairman, at one time for a brief period of 8 months when Ave were operating on a propaganda or publicity basis out of Oklahoma State.
Mr. Starnes. Do you recall what year that was ?
Mr. Pellet. Yes. That was from about September of 1933 to about February or March of 1934.
Mr. Starnes. What was the particular purpose of that group?
Mr. Pellet. Because we had such a representation on the western coast or the western part of the country that it was attempted — it was experimented by putting a subheadquarters in the western part of the country for the service of those people.
Mr. Starnes. You had a fast-growing membership in the western part f)f the country (
]Mr. Pellet. Correct.
Mr. Starnes. That was in California, Oregon, and Washington?
Mr. Pellet. Riglit. In fact all of the Western States west of the Mississippi.
Mr. Starnes. The Door to Revelation, that is a book written by you ?
94931 — 40 — vol. 12 5
7264 ux-AMEiacAN i'kopaganda activities
Mr. Pelley. It is, sir.
Mr. Staene.s. On paoe 415 apj^ears tins excerpt :
I knew two things whieli tlifse follows did not : First it was within the Karma.
Mr. Pelley. Kioht.
Mr. Starnes (continuing) :
Of ihe Silver Shirt niovemenl to work out a maneuver somewhere in the west. Second, tucked away in my tiles were letters from influential Oklahomans in- forming me that if I would malce tlie legion a power in Oklahoma politics, aid in private ways might in nowise be lacking.
Is that statement correct? Mr. Pelley. Wluit is the last? Mr. Starnes. I quote :
Seeond, tucked away in my files were letters from influential Oklahomans informing me that if I would make the Legion a power in Oklahoma politics, aid in private wa.vs might in nowise be lacking.
Mr. Pelley. That is correct.
Mr. Starxes. You did have that assurance?
Mr. Pei>ley. Mr. Chairman, I am a little bit hard of hearinix. That is why I am questionino- _you.
Mr. Starmes. That is quite all ri^ht. The acoustics in these build- incs is very bad. That statement of yours was correct?
Mr. Pelley. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. That you had information or letters, rather, from influential Oklahoma citizens to the effect if you would make the Silver Legion movement a political power in Oklahoma that you could find all of the ])rivate aid that you were looking for.
Mr. Pelley. Correct, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Now, was it the purpose or a part of your political prof^ram in the State of Oklahoma, or did you contemplate action there, that would enable the Silver Shirt Legion to take over the Statehouse — the State government ?
Mr. Pelley. Emphatically not.
Mr. Starnes. A few other questions I would like to ask you. Do you know Henry D. Allen ?
Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you known him, Mr. Pelley?
Mr. Pelley. I )net him in Los Angeles, Calif., I should say about April or May of 1934.
Mr. Starnes. Did he hold any official position in the Silver Shirt Legion ?
Mr. Pelley. Xo, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did he ever work wuth your organization in any manner ?
Mr. Pelley. He did.
Mr. Starnes. Either in a sympathetic capacity or otherwise ?
Mr. Pelley. He did.
Mr. Starnes. He did ?
]Mr. Pelley. Yes, sir.
]Mr. Starnes. Will you relate to the committee, please, in ^vhat capacity he worked?
Mr. Pelley. He worked as an assistant to Mr. Kenneth D. Alex- ander, who was recognized at that time as the California liaison man to myself personally.
UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7265
Mr. Starnes. What was llie type of work that he d\d( W;itf he iuerely a liaison agent between you and Alexander^
Ml'. 1*KLLF.Y. No. He was. you might say, moral su|)])oit fnr Mr. Alexander.
Mr. Staknes. Did lie contribute any funds or did he aetiveiy ])ai- tic'ipate in any cam[)aigii to raise funds from outside souive;^. lo assist the Siher Legion in its program?
Mr. Pelley. Yes; he might have done so.
Mr. Starnes. Do you recall, approximate!}', now, how much he raised^ I can understand you are testifying merely from recollec- tion.
Mr. Pelley. Right.
Mr. Staknes. And you have the privilege of refreshing your recol- lection from official records. Do you recall approximately the amount of money that he might have raised and turned over to the organization?
Mr. Pelley. Mr. Chairman, I don't recall that he ever raised a cent.
Mr. Starnes. Well, do you recall whether or not you received con- siderable financial support from outside sources in the State of Cali- fornia and along the west coast where he was active?
Mr, Pelley. That means whether he had any participation in it or not?
Mr. Starnes. Correct.
Mr. Pelley. Yes; I do.
Mr. Starnes. Can you give us an approximation of the amount or amounts?
Mr. Pelley. That would entail — my answer would entail an esti- mate of what the Silver Legion support was in California for that year, for the year in wdiich Mr. Allen was associated with us, is that correct ?
Mr. Starnes, How much would that be?
Mr. Pelley. I doubt, Mr. Chairman, if it would be over $^.000.
Mr. Starnes. You do not think it would be over $2,000 ?
Mr. Pelley. Not over that.
Mr, Starnes. How much in Oregon for that year, do you recall?
Mr. Pelley. No ; I do not, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Or in Washington?
Mr. Pelley. No,
Mr. Starnes. In which of those three States did you have the largest membership?
Mr. Pelley. In 1934. in the State of California.
Mr. Starnes. At the present time which has the laitier member- ship?
Mr. Pelley. The State of Washington.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know George Detherage?
Mr. Pelley. I do, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Have you ever received any aid or support from hini in a financial way or what, in common parlance, and you will undei-- stand what I mean when I say "in comm(m parlance, "in a mora! way or sympathetic support?
Mr. Pelijey. I have, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Have you and he cooperated on any program or cf)n- cert of action, politically or otherwise, in this country?
7266 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
. Mr. Pellet. I have not.
Mr. Starnes. Did he and the organization he represents or heads ever assist you or your organization in promoting any of the phases of the Silver Shirt program?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir. Let me qualify that. Beyond purchasing literature from our headquarters on the same basis that anybody in the United States would do.
Mr. VooRHis. M\ I ask a question at this point. Mr. Pelley, have you sold ^ isiderable literature to the Ayrian Book Store in Los Angele'" "
Mr. F^i^^j^Y. I believe we have, Mr. Voorhis.
Mr. Voorhis. Is that the official book store for the German- American Bund?
Mr. Pellet. It may be, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. As a matter of fact haven't you sent quite a quantity of literature there?
Mr, Pellet. I have, Mr. Voorhis, but on a strict sales basis because they ordered it and paid for it.
Mr. Voorhis. I understand.
Mr. Starnes. Did Mr. Deatherage and his group ever furnish you with any type of literature or propaganda for publications or bul- letins that some groups call ''enlightenment"?
Mr. Pellet. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Getting back to the State of Washington, where vou say vou have quite an active group at the present time. Do you know Frank W. Clark?
Mr. Pellet, I do, sir,
Mr, Starnes, Is he connected or identified with your movement in that State?
Mr. Pellet. He was until. I should say, about October 1, 1936.
Mr, Starnes, He is no longer identified with the movement in anv way?
Mr. Pellet. He is not, sir. May I qualify that, with the exception he has Silver Legion credentials which he has never surrendered.
Mr. Starnes, Then you are not prepared to state whether or not he still represents himself as being a leader in the movement and being active in the movement?
Mr. Pellet, Decidedly to the contrary. Mr, Clark has disassociated himself with the movement and attempted a movement of his own, called the ''Young Butfalos," whatever that may be,
Mr, Starnes, What is the name of it?
Mr. Pei^let, "Young Butfalos," whatever that may mean.
Mr, Starnes. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Mr. J. H, Peyton ?
Mr, Pellet, No, sir,
Mr, Starnes, Do you know Charles B, Hudson ?
Mr, Pellet, No, sir; you mean personally as an acquaintance?
Mr, Starnes, Yes,
Mr. Pellet, No, sir,
Mr, Starnes. Do you know Mrs, Leslie Fry ?
Mr, Pellet No. sir; only by reputation in the newspapei-s,
Mr, Voorhis, Slie is no relation to the Mrs, Leslie mentioned in your book?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7267
Mr. Pellet. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know James True?
Mr. Pelley. I do, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Have you had auy connection with him in furthering the Silver Shirt Legion program^
Mr. Pellet. Only to the extent that Mr. True has from time to time in his industrial control repoits, very graciously publicized a new item of publication which I. might bring out.
Mr. Starnes. In otlier words, in his report he has carried certain items contributed by you througli your publication?
Mr. Pellet. Not contributed, Mr. Chairman. He has publicized to his clientele ntnv numbers which I might issue.
Mr. Starnes. Well, I misunderstand you. I thought you said you had contributed the articles.
Mr. Pellet. No. I never did that.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Gerald B. Winrod?
Mr. Pellet. Only by reputation in the papers.
Mr. Starnes. Has Mr. True or his organization or his concern or his associates ever contributed any money to the support of the Silver Shirt Legion and its program?
Mr. Pellet. Only for such literature as they have bought on a commercial basis and paid for at the end of 30 days.
Mr. Starnes. Will you furnish the committee the amounts that they have purchased over the period of time that you have operated?
Mr. Pellet. I shall be delighted to do so.
Mr. VooRHis. ^lay I ask a question ?
Mr. Starnes. All right, Mr. Voorhis.
Mr. VooRHis. Have you sold considerable literature to Hugo Eger, of Chicago, Mr. Pelley ?
Mr. Pellet. Mr. Hugo Eger is the Silver Shirt leader of Chicago and I have sold liim a great amount of material.
Mr. VooRHis. Has he any connection with any other organization?
Mr. Pellet. Not that I know of.
Mr. VooRHis. You don't know of any connection he has with the German-American Bund ?
Mr. Pellet. No, no; and I don't think it is true he has any con- nection. In fact he has expressed from time to time a great hostility for the German-American Bund.
Mr. VooRHis. Have you sold literature to the Germania Book Store in Yorkville, N. Y.?
Mr. Pellet. No; not in Yorkville; it was in New York City.
Mr. VooRHis. In New York City?
Mr. Pellet. Right.
Mr. VooRHis. Germania Book Store?
Mr. Pfxlet. They have taken a large quantity of our material and paid us cash for it on a commercial basis. No other connection.
Mr. Thomas. May I ask a question ?
Mr. Starnes. Yes, Mr. Thomas.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Pelley, have you met with Mr. True any time within the past year?
Mr. Pellet. I don't think so, Mr. Thomas. I have met him prior to that but the past year I don't think so.
Mr. Thomas. You have met with him we will say within the past year and a half?
7268 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Pellet. Yes, yes.
Mr. Thomas. Was that meeting in Washington?
Mr. Pellet. Yes. I went to spend — I went up one night for a social call and dropped in on Mr. True and spent the evening.
Mr. Thomas. Have you known Mr. True for long?
Mr. Pellet. I have known Mr. True for, I should say, a period of about 3 years.
Mr. Thomas. And how many times do you think you have met with him in that period of 3 years?
Mr. Pellet. A half a dozen.
Mr. Thomas. A half a dozen times?
IMr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. All in Washington?
Mr. Pellet. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. And they have just been social calls?
Mr. Pellet. That is all.
Mr. Thomas. But you have discussed with him the possibility of his organization and your organization joining up and becoming one, haven't you?
Mr. Pellet. No ; because he had no organization.
Mr. Thomas. But you have got his moral support?
Mr. Pellet. That is right.
]\'Ir. Thomas. And he has gotten yours?
Mr. Pellet. Right.
Mr. vStarnes. Have you ever sold any of your literature to Gerald B. Winrod or any organization he is associated with?
Ml". Pellet. No, sir. Mr. Winrod is very hostile to the work I am doing.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Fritz Kuhn ?
Mr. Pei LET. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Have you ever sold Fritz Kuhn and his organiza- tion any literature?
Mr. Pellet. What do you mean?
Mr. Starnes. That you publish.
Mr. Pellet. May I ask what you mean by "his organization"? Do you mean the German Bund as an official organization?
Mr. Starnes. What I mean is have you ever sold to him, either to him or to his organization, any of these publications that have been identified here for the record, or other publications that we have not yet been able to identify?
Mr. Pellet. That is kind of a difficult question, Mr. Chairman. May I tell it in iny own words? I have only met Mr. Kuhn once in my life, which was in Los Angeles. At that time we agreed to dis- agree and have had no association since. What Mr. Kuhn's ramificii- tions may be in an organizational way, I am not familiar with enough to answer your cjuestion. I have sold the bulk of material which I considered going to the German Bund through the Germania Book Shop in New York City.
Mr. Starnes. At this point, gentleman, there is a roll call vote i?i the House on a motion to recommit. That will probably take some time; so, if it is agreeable to the committee, we will adjourn novv-, subject to the call of the chairman.
The members of the committee will be given an opportunity to question this witness at length on any matters pertinent to the inquiry
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 7269
and for us long as they like. That goes for every member of the committee.
Mr. Pelley, you will hold yourself available for the connnittee at any hour tliat the Chair is ready to call the connnittee back in session.
Mr. Pellet. I am here in Washington unril the connnittee wishes to dismiss me.
Mr. Starxes. You understand you are under subi)ena and you will make yourself available to the committee. You will leave your address with the secretary so we can get you by telephone, or other- wise, immediately when we need you.
Mr. Pellet. I will do that.
Mr. Starnes. Then the committee vail adjourn at this time, subject to the call of the chairman.
(Whereupon at 2:45 p. m., the committee adjourned.)
INYESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1939
House of Representatives, Special Committee to In^-estigate Un- America isr AcTI\^TlES,
WashingtoTiM, D. G.
The committee met at 10 : 30 a. m., Hon. Joe Starnes (acting chair- man) pi-esiding.
Present: Acting Chairman Joe Starnes; members of the com- mittee, Hon. J. Parnell Thomas, Hon. John J. Dempsey, Hon. Jerry Voorhis, and Hon. Joseph E. Casey.
Mr. Robert B. Barker, investigator for the committee.
Mr. Stripling, secretary of the committee.
The Acting Chairman. The committee will come to order.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM DUDLEY PELLEY— Kesmned
The Acting Chairman. Mr. Pelley, in certain questions that were propounded to you during the course of your testimony earlier in the week you were careful to distinguish between the sources of revenue which you have received. You stated, if I recall correctly, you had received certain revenue or contributions or financial support for the v.ork of tlie Silver Legion.
Mr. Pellet. Correct.
The Acting Chairman. Tlien you stated that you had also received financial contributions and financial support for your metaphysical writings and work?
Mr. Pellet. That is right.
The Acting Chairiman. ^Miat other activities have you engaged in other than your legion activities and your metaphysical writings which have been a source of income to you ?
Mr. Pellet. My publication of what might be called secular books. I would not call such a book as the Door to Revelation metaphysical. I call them secular writings.
Tlie Acting Chairman. What do you denominate metaphysical writings of yours, then, or your publications?
jNIr. Pelm:t. You mean identifying items?
The Acting Chairman. Identifving books, yes; or particular books by title.
]Mr. Pellet. Sucli a book as I quoted here the other day. Behold Life — that would be considered a metaphysical book.